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Aldis Behmanis
(alfs29) - F
Ultimate hunter cold weather wear. on 04/02/2012 05:14:48 MDT Print View

Hi all,

I have a lot of different clothing for hunting in my closet but none of them is perfect :) so i have decided to make one that is :D
What it's for and what do i expect from it?

It's will be used for hunting in spring, autumn and winter.
Walking 20%, tree stand 80%.
Temperature range i'd love to have 0-50F.
It doesn't have to be waterproof. DWR is OK. I plan to have thin Gore-tex MT050 jacket and pants in case of rain in backpack.
It has to be quiet as possible.
It has to dry and transport perspiration outside as fast as possible.

I have idea to built it 3-layer.
1) Polartec WindPro
2) Polartec Classic 300
3) Primaloft 6oz (quilted in "something" silk?) and it will be button-in-out style :)
Maybe it's better to have kinda 2-layer thiner insulation that one thick layer because of quilting?

What do you guys think about this combination?
Thanks

Aldis Behmanis
(alfs29) - F
addition on 04/02/2012 08:38:22 MDT Print View

I forgot to add one probably important detail: Cost is no object.
Within reasonable range of course.


p.s.
sorry for not noticing EDIT button before.

Edited by alfs29 on 04/02/2012 08:39:27 MDT.

Mike Oxford
(moxford) - MLife

Locale: Silicon Valley, CA
Re: Ultimate hunter cold weather wear. on 04/02/2012 14:06:35 MDT Print View

0-50 is a pretty big range, especially with the highly variable activity levels.

I would go, in layers....
Merino microweight
merino midweight
Polartech over it
Second layer fleece/windproof if needed (MT050)
Puffy layer/heavy jacket if really cold

2x merino buff (neck/head/face) and fleece/merino hat or balaclava over that.

Basically, while hiking in you'll be using the two merino layers and maybe the fleece/MT050 depending on terrain (hills vs flat.)
When you're parked in the stand you'll probably need everything on if it's cold. That'll usually mean pacboots and another set of heavy socks. If your stand location is exposed (edge of a field) and the wind is blowing with a 3deg air temp, make sure to account for that. Stomping your feet to keep warm while on stand isn't really doable, for obvious reasons. :)

You don't want to sweat on the way in (too much scent, as well as temps) so you need to keep layering correct, but a 4am getup for a 4:30-5am hike in the cold/dark to a treestand you'll need to peel/replace layers, only to put them back on once you're parked in the stand.

Between merino and fleece layers you should be good, and quiet, but the key is layering in numbers. Once you're in the stand you don't want to be adding/removing layers, but if you absolutely have to then beating merino/fleece is pretty hard because it's quiet and packs down pretty well. Make sure you get 1/4,1/2 or full zip. You can increase the airflow without having to remove full layers. Minimal movement.

Don't forget that your rainwear can help with insulation/wind blockage, so you might not need a dedicated wind-block-layer.

Oh, and merino stinks a whole lot less than fleece too.

Good hunting...

-mox

j lan
(justaddfuel) - F

Locale: MN
Re: Ultimate hunter cold weather wear. on 04/02/2012 14:19:20 MDT Print View

If I had the money I would get some KUIU Gear:
http://shop.kuiu.com/storefront.aspx

Jeff Twerdun
(westcoasthiker) - MLife

Locale: Vancouver Island Canada
"Ultimate hunter cold weather wear." on 04/02/2012 14:30:45 MDT Print View

For what its worth, i would be looking @ Carinthia gear out of Austria. This stuff looks awesome! Windstopper outer on most of their jackets and pants, synthetic ins. and in the colors for hunting! (It is designed for the Austrian military). Anywho, if you do not want to sew, and money is no object, maybe a possible. Thats my 2 cents! westcoasthiker

Aldis Behmanis
(alfs29) - F
windstopper & Carinthiais not for silent hunters on 04/03/2012 02:29:24 MDT Print View

Gore-tex Windstopper is crap! Yes, it does block wind but it makes cracking noise (especially when its below 32F)
It's probably perfect for tourists but not for hunters who try do get like 30yd or closer to their prey.
If you shoot 100yd then its not that bad too in a case you are chasing deaf & blind deers :)
Generally all membranes are more or less noisy especially when it gets colder.

Cartinthia is probably very good, but not for silent hunters. Militaries don't have to get 30yd to their foes to shoot and even if they do, then deer hearing is way better than human.

Edited by alfs29 on 04/03/2012 02:37:05 MDT.

Aldis Behmanis
(alfs29) - F
Re: Re: Ultimate hunter cold weather wear. on 04/03/2012 02:57:31 MDT Print View

MIke,

I totally agree about layering. At this moment I'm using UA Base 3.0 + UA Fleece + UA Extreme cold parka.
If its really cold then i get Polartec 200 bibs under outer layer and another high quality fleece.
Why I'm not happy?
1) It is a high quality product but UA parka and pants are f*&^n noisy :(
2) It is very often when i don't need membrane (its not raining or snowing) but extra breathability would be great.

But doesn't merino dry very slow when it gets wet?
Yes, 0-50 is big range and thats why i am thinking to make this primaloft insulation button-in-out style.
Also i do not expect to encounter such temperature changes during one day. This temp range is more meant for different seasons not during 1-2 days :) Normally we get temperature change within 20F during daytime.

Also if it's really windy then some cracking noise from Gore-Tex MT050 (AFAIK most silent of all membranes) will disappear :) and on the other hand it should provide a lot of warmth because of wind blocking.

Does any of you guys have any experience with X-Static linings? I have it in my skiing gear and its really no bad :)

What would you recommend as a lining material for Primaloft One insulation? It has to prevent fibers from getting out and at the same time be max breathable and fast drying. (Please be as specific as possible)

Quote: " ....Oh, and merino stinks a whole lot less than fleece too."
I wash my clothes more than once in a season using http://www.codebluescents.com/productdetail.aspx?id=OA1161

:)))))

-Al

Edited by alfs29 on 04/03/2012 04:12:32 MDT.

Jeff Twerdun
(westcoasthiker) - MLife

Locale: Vancouver Island Canada
"Ultimate hunter cold weather wear." on 04/03/2012 17:08:44 MDT Print View

Aldis, i was just trying to help! westcoastHIKER!

Adam Thibault
(apthibault) - F - M
Re: "Ultimate hunter cold weather wear." on 04/04/2012 12:52:42 MDT Print View

Nothing beats wool in the woods, its quiet, odor resistant, handles some mositure well...

I would go with this: http://www.gfredasbell.com/gfa_wool_clothing.php

Aldis Behmanis
(alfs29) - F
Re: Re: "Ultimate hunter cold weather wear." on 04/04/2012 15:04:41 MDT Print View

Guys, all respect to your wool worship but in my opinion today's high-tech materials beat old classics hands down .... ok, ok maybe not hands down but still.
Let's look at wool for example. Quiet - yes, warm - yes, odor resistant - possibly but together with those good things come bad ones ... heavy - yes, slow drying - yes, bulk - yes, difficult to wash - yes, hard to bend if thick - yes.

Why do you refuse benefits of modern materials? Fleece - lightweight, quiet, fast drying, easy to care, soft. You can combine different high-tech materials together to achieve properties not reachable to natural materials. For example add lining with silver threads and get heat reflection and antiseptic properties.

btw does anyone know where to get lining material with X-Static fibers at least 15%? Maybe some analog product?
I would like buy some yards.

Javan Dempsey
(jdempsey)

Locale: The-Stateless-Society
Re: Re: Re: "Ultimate hunter cold weather wear." on 04/04/2012 15:58:28 MDT Print View

Hey Aldis, if you've got a dogmatic belief that all engineered products are inherently superior than non engineered ones, my input is probably wasted. However, if you're open to constructive counter point, maybe I can help.

You've outlined some pretty broad impressions about wool, that while not totally off-base, are imho over generalizing.

Its important not to make sweeping classifications of materials, especially ones that come in so many varieties and configurations.

The idea that wool takes long to dry is a big misconception being proliferated. It may be true in thicker cross sections of certain types of wool, but I find the thinner merino baselayers to be just as quick or quicker to dry than many synthetics, which usually utilize thicker knits for equivalent warmth.

That being said, I wouldn't want to use a thick knit fine tex yarn lambs wool for an insulative layer, because yes, that would be weighty and hold moisture.

In my experience a combination of merino baselayers, synthetic mid/insulative layers and down primary insulation offers the best combination of features, efficiency, and weight.

My typical winter kit; Icebreaker Merino baselayers, polartec power stretch mid layers when stationary; very light nylon wind layer when moving, or down gear when stationary. Rain gear if it's warm enough to rain but cold enough to be dangerous.

The difference in equivalent warmth merino vs synthetic baselayer weight is marginal, and I find the evaporate cooling acceleration of synthetics to keep me colder. Merino as the next to skin layer highly mitigates the stink of the fleece mid layer, which can get noxious in winter, and I bet the game can smell it.


Synthetics really lose in the weight/performance ratio compared to goose down clothing when talking about primary insulation. Although they may be more durable.

Noise of all materials varies, but merino and powerstetch are very quiet, which I like also. Many synthetic wovens can be very noisey, but some like SevenD I find very quiet.

Also, there's a misconception about care for wool. Many wool garments are machine washable, I toss my merino pieces in with the regular laundry, and have had zero issues.

Anyway, good luck on your quest, and I hope you keep an open mind. Everything has its place in context, nothing is inherently better than anything else, only in context.

Mike Oxford
(moxford) - MLife

Locale: Silicon Valley, CA
Merino/fleece on 04/05/2012 11:22:21 MDT Print View

/shrug

I bowhunt in merino/fleece layers; spot and stalk with an ASAT 3-D over it. Slightly higher activity than tree-stand camping.

Merino doesn't really take longer to dry and the upside is that you're warm even while damp. You don't notice it. We're not talking about Woolworth wool here; a thin merino shirt is lighter weight than a standard cotton T-shirt. You can find the drying times, reports and comparisons online with a little looking.

When you sweat, it's the bacteria that causes the smell. Merino inhibits that growth. Anything else will just culture that bacteria. Lots of people are super-fanatic about scent control (I'm not, I play the wind) but it always surprises me when people un-ziploc all their carefully neutrally-washed-and-packed clothes, use a drag bag, and then get all sweaty going to their stand to sit and don't even think about how much odor they're putting into the environment around them.

To each their own, but don't discount merino until you've tried it. It is, IMHO, fantastic stuff. :)

-mox

Brian McFarlane
(Brian1416) - F
Re: Ultimate hunter cold weather wear. on 04/06/2012 10:03:27 MDT Print View

Brian

This is a commercial posting advertising your company without any disclosure that you have a vested interest in the company. This is against forum policy. Our rules are simple:

* You must disclose your connection to the company in any posting close to your interests.
* Commercial postings are restricted to Gear Deals, and must include a 'deal' for our readers.

That said, the Gear Deals channel is available.

Roger Caffin
Online Community Monitor
Backpacking Light

Edited by rcaffin on 04/06/2012 15:29:37 MDT.