"Seems to me that buying an older car or SUV, and keeping it running well, is a smaller carbon foot print than getting a new one. Thoughts?"

If we were really good, we'd stay home and meditate ;-)

Baring that I think there are a lot of pretty good paths, and terrible ones ... say running a Ford Excursion, on corn ethanol.

John, why is it that all of the corn ethanol programs are promoted by the corn growing states?

--B.G.--

I know the corn ethanol answer - Welfare Farming!

Joe, are you trying to suggest that this is our federal taxpayer dollars at work?

--B.G.--

I am really really wishing I had a 4wd truck or jeep. So many rough roads out there that go deep into national forests. My ford taurus would get beat up pretty bad and in the winter it would probably get stuck in the mud.

"Seems to me that buying an older car or SUV, and keeping it running well, is a smaller carbon foot print than getting a new one. Thoughts?"

I agree with this. Even worse to pay people to get rid of a perfectly good older car as an incentive to buy a new one.

My vehicles aren't necessarily the ones of choice, just what I have.
One is a 1993 Ford Ranger with 252,000 miles on it. This is what I drive every day to work.
Other is a 1998 Subaru outback Legacy AWD ( 2500cc), with 153,000 miles on it. This one is very clean, runs great and gets out every couple of weeks.

The weird thing about new or used, and co2, is that it is the total fleet that matters, rather than what we individually drive. Somewhere, at this moment, an old car is being scrapped. The worse it's mileage, the better.

If I say, sell my Subaru (what I had before the Prius), it doesn't get scrapped, it gets handed down the chain. Does it "push out" a clunker? Who knows.

(Of course, crashed cars are the biggest waste, esp. high mileage cars ... so drive carefully!)

We have an '02 CRV. With AT tires this little goat goes on some tough roads. Here, Tilba helps us out of a rough spot.

Stephan, how old did your dog have to be to get a drivers license?

--B.G.--

"Seems to me that buying an older car or SUV, and keeping it running well, is a smaller carbon foot print than getting a new one. Thoughts?"
Yes and no. We have a 2010 Hyundai Elantra Touring bought with backpacking very much in mind. Better "trunk" capacity than anything else in it's class, and sadly won't be imported next year replaced by the sexier hatchback. Ours has a manual trans and a great cover for the luggage area standard as well as Electronic stability control. Everything the Honda Fit didn't have unless you bought a $ GPS option (And not enough room) . We like it because we can backpack and basecamp in the Cascades for 3 people. And I'm spoiled . When my daughter was younger our camping and daily car was an 88 Honda Accord. Independent rear suspension. I'm used to riding motorcycles, but I can put the Honda into slick turns on 101 and never even think about losing grip. It is my Oregon 4 season bike. We still have it with about 200K on the clock. Better millage than anything new, but keep in mind all those airbags have added so much to the weight of newer things.Similar story with my truck . 94 Toyota shortbed with under 100 K miles, Thanks to Craig's list bullet shopping and challenging the insurance offers I got armed with receipts.Best I could do after some idiot totaled my 81 Toyota pickup longbed with a one ton rear axle I put in. My work truck. I miss it dearly.It's better than anything you can now buy. When GM suggested the public offer it new ways to go in Bankruptcy this ways my suggestion. No takers.One thing about both the Toyota 4 and 6 ( I had a 72' Landcruiser) . Watch those thermostats, very careful radiators, coolant changes like a religion. I was hauling rock up the Santiam Pass and overheated. Had to rebuild the head after getting the heat induced warp out by professional leveling. Not Cheap. But worth it . After 94 the Toyota pickup became a bloated tank. The Taco or Tundra. Landyachts. Not work trucks.

Edited by Meander on 03/24/2012 18:48:34 MDT.

Bob

License? You should see what i had to do to the pedals. stephan

After years of capable import AWD and 4WD rigs (lots of elevation and snow in our 'hood), we've recently ended up with two Ford Escapes. Really happy with both of them.

Old one is a (first year) 2001 4cyl. Gets almost 30mpg. It's not going to win any races, but it's been incredibly reliable and I got it for about $5000 5 years ago. I've put almost nothing into it besides routine maintenance. Fantastic in the snow. Great trailhead car. Tiny engine, but even I and my lame skills can do most work on it. One of the last easy-to-work-on cars as far as I can tell. 2WD most of time, AWD when i need it.

We were looking for another one, but the 4cyl are hard to find. The 6cyl doesn't get nearly the gas mileage (although most report it's almost OVERpowered) so we weren't interested in that. Ended up with an Escape Hybrid because we got a screaming deal and it was cheaper than most gas equivalents. Great car. With a light pedal it'll get 30-35 mpg in an AWD capable vehicle with lots of room. Hard to beat that. Obviously not a ton of power, but I'm fine with that. We were a little concerned about longevity with the hybrid system until we read about the NYC cab fleet. Largest fleet of Escape Hybrids on the planet - a couple thousand of them, I think. They just recently started retiring the first ones at an average life of 350K on original equipment. I can live with that for sure!

Dream vehicle isn't available in North America yet but has been in Europe since about 2008. Diesel Subarus. The Forester supposedly gets 40-45 mpg on diesel. No hybrid. That is what I'd buy in a second if it were an option.

while my landcruiser is cool (i think) if i could have any car...

it would be a slammed 54 chevy rat rod, with mexican blanket seats, you know the type

You are dead right about the Diesels but the loss in translation is formidable.The Elanta Touring I bought won some prizes vs. the Prius in Australia a few years ago but Diesel is a non truck no go for now in the U.S. unless you are playing games with Corporate Taxation.It is not going to happen in the U.S. barring some kind of radical overhaul.Which is what you pay for a system where capturing 4 years is worth more than the temporary alternative,

My trailhead rig from 1984 to 2004 was a Mitsubishi Montero 2 door. 485,000 miles with nothing but normal maintainence. I drove it everywhere from Nome to Cabo, BC to Nova Scotia, and everywhere in between. It met it's death in a slow roll in southern Utah.

Since 2004 I have been driving a 2004 Subaru WRX. Amazing how far it can go if you carefully pick your line offroad. I have shocked more than a few Jeep owners but, unfortunately it's looking a bit neglected as a result.

A 1982 Subaru Brat. Red. With the pop-up sun roofs. And AC. Gets close to 40 mpg on the highway. Hi/Lo range. It's just a lot of fun to drive. 99,000 miles.

BMW F800GS....MSRP: $11,500


and...

Specialized S-Works McLaren Venge....MSRP: $18,000

...I payed that much for my Honda Element.

Gets me everywhere and nobody pushes me around. Also keeps those pesky grizzlies at bay. Gets slightly better gas milage than a Hummer H2. Stream crossing are a thing of the past.





(OK, I've got a Camry with 230,000 miles on it. Next vehicle is hopefully going to be some sort of SUV. Or tank.)

Edited by T.L. on 03/24/2012 21:50:06 MDT.

I've been thinking about doing the same thing. I like how it'd force me to keep going ultra light and small. The big downside is that if I drop the bike on a slippery dirt road, I might destroy my backpacking gear at the same time. Also, I'm not really sure what I'd do with my riding gear when I get to the trail head.

This is the choice for me for the last five years. '91 VW Vanagon. My trailhead apartment. Queen size heated bed, porta-potty, table, lighting, 120v and 12vdc power, etc.. Not the best on gas or power. I can and do everything on it as far as service and repair. I wanted on for 20 years and was nixed by the misses. Finally talked her into it as it would replace three vehicles. 20 minutes into our fist drive in it together she says"This is great!". Figures.


Before the VW. We put some serious mileage on this rig primarily in southern CA. The teardrop trailer I built myself. The 84 Volvo 240 wagon is still on the road with over 400,000 miles on it. No major repairs. Bought it for 2k and drove it for 7 years.