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Ben F
(tekhna) - F
What glue for alcohol stoves? Or rivets? on 03/15/2012 18:23:57 MDT Print View

I'm looking at making the Zen basic sideburner stove ( http://zenstoves.net/BasicSideBurner.htm ), and I went to the hardware store tonight and was somewhat perplexed by the number of glues available, but I didn't see a single one rated for above 500 degrees. Which a stove probably gets above. So I was wondering, is there a reason I can't use rivets? They seem like they'd be more durable, and easier to work with. 1/8th inch rivets would probably work well. Or should I just use stuff like this? http://www.amazon.com/Pro-Seal-80726-Hi-Temp-Silicone/dp/B000FW7VNW

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: What glue for alcohol stoves? Or rivets? on 03/15/2012 19:10:56 MDT Print View

Why not use the suggestion made at Zenstoves?

JB Weld

If you were trying to get some adhesive to withstand the hot temperatures above the flame, that would be one thing. However, you are trying to join two pieces of aluminum that are below the flame level, and the heat there is not that extreme.

--B.G.--

Ben F
(tekhna) - F
Re: Re: What glue for alcohol stoves? Or rivets? on 03/15/2012 19:34:47 MDT Print View

Because I've read elsewhere JB Weld doesn't always work that well. It's also expensive.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Re: What glue for alcohol stoves? Or rivets? on 03/15/2012 19:46:39 MDT Print View

"Because I've read elsewhere JB Weld doesn't always work that well. It's also expensive."

Correct. JB Weld works poorly when it is misapplied. It costs $3-$6.

--B.G.--

Ben F
(tekhna) - F
Re: Re: Re: Re: What glue for alcohol stoves? Or rivets? on 03/15/2012 19:57:52 MDT Print View

Oh snap. It was 17 dollars at the Ace down the street from my place.

Ben F
(tekhna) - F
Re: Re: Re: Re: What glue for alcohol stoves? Or rivets? on 03/15/2012 19:59:58 MDT Print View

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1424232

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What glue for alcohol stoves? Or rivets? on 03/15/2012 20:06:31 MDT Print View

The price is going to be high for a professional size.

Instead, I suggest that you go to your local auto parts store, and they will likely have smaller sizes. It's about $5 where I live. Of course, even the small size lasts for many projects.

There is also JB Kwik, which is a closely related product that bonds much faster, but it has less thermal tolerance.

--B.G.--

John Donewar
(Newton) - MLife

Locale: Southeastern Louisiana
Re: Re: What glue for alcohol stoves? Or rivets? on 03/15/2012 21:51:30 MDT Print View

Ben,

Zenstoves also suggests ...high temperature RTV silicone...

Permatex 81422 Sensor-Safe High-Temp RTV Silicone Gasket has a temperature rating of –75°F to +650°F intermittent.

Note the term intermittent. Is a ten minute burn time considered "intermittent"?

Rivets will probably work well enough.

This is a picture of the now discontinued original Thru Hiker Stove from End2End Trail Supply.

Thru Hiker Stove

It was made with the now extinct Heineken 12 ounce keg cans which brought about its discontinuation. But as you can see from the picture it was made using rivets.

Thru Hiker Stove in full bloom

I believe this is roughly the same kind of stove that you are building.

Party On,

Newton

Edited by Newton on 03/15/2012 21:53:09 MDT.

Ben F
(tekhna) - F
Re: Re: Re: What glue for alcohol stoves? Or rivets? on 03/15/2012 22:20:30 MDT Print View

John, that's pretty much the stove I'm building, thanks for the rivet ideas. I guess I don't have anything I'd really use a riveter on, so there's not much point in buying on, but it sure would be fun!

Steven Hanlon
(asciibaron) - F

Locale: Mid Atlantic
rivets!!! on 03/16/2012 05:55:32 MDT Print View

Rivets? how much weight are they going to add? just get the small JB Weld or some RTV at Autozone - under $5.00 for the little tube. i printed out the templates for the exact stove from ZenStoves and plan on building one in the near future.

Ben F
(tekhna) - F
Re: rivets!!! on 03/16/2012 09:50:13 MDT Print View

Well, I haven't weight one, but here's a chart- http://www.r-rivet.com/040~Product_Info/#weights1
.87 pounds divided by 1000 is.. not a lot. .3oz or something for three rivets.

Kevin Beeden
(captain_paranoia) - F

Locale: UK
no need for glue or rivets on 03/16/2012 10:07:33 MDT Print View

In my experience, there's no need for glue of rivets when making a 'trangia-style', or 'pepsi-can' burner.

If you make the lower, outer can come up the full height of the burner (at least to the 'shoulder' of the upper, inner can), then it will act as a full-height fuel cup.

Also, when the shoulder of the inner can meets the rim of the outer can, it forms a pretty robust interference fit that is adequately gas tight, provided there are no dents in the shoulder.

Having a joint in the middle of the sidewall of the burner is the weakest place to put it; the flexible sidewalls bend easily at this point. Putting the joint at the shoulder of the inner can is the strongest place, since the shoulder is the strongest part of the can (take an empty can, and see how much force it takes to press the sidewalls in in the middle of the wall, then try the same at the shoulder...).

Here's my set of instructions for making a 'classic' burner using this sort of joint.

Ben F
(tekhna) - F
Re: no need for glue or rivets on 03/16/2012 10:34:12 MDT Print View

Hey Kevin, thanks for that! The design is slightly different for yours (top burner as opposed to side burner) but same basic idea. Thanks for some good ideas on getting the top off.
The thing I'm having trouble with is getting the actual burner holes in without dimpling or bending the side of the can.

Edit-actually, can yours be used without a pot stand?

Edited by tekhna on 03/16/2012 10:38:09 MDT.

Ultra Magnus
(Ultra_Magnus) - F
Re: no need for glue or rivets on 03/16/2012 13:23:26 MDT Print View

2nd what Kevin Beeden had to say- the press fit between the two cans is more than adequate. JB weld can actually complicate the process and lead to lots of frustration. The only part I would jb weld would be the inner sleeve of an open jet stove. I want that joint to be nice and leak tight, but that's just me.

BM

G Watson
(twiglegs)

Locale: Uk
JB on 03/16/2012 16:01:06 MDT Print View

Thirded.
Though i do use a small amount of JB on Lynx burners as i have known them come apart after a burn.

Edited by twiglegs on 03/16/2012 16:01:37 MDT.

Ben F
(tekhna) - F
Re: JB on 03/16/2012 16:10:43 MDT Print View

Huh, ok, thanks guys. I'll try to just press it later. My question is, to make the pressing process easier, is it ok to crimp the top can so it slides in easier, or will that not be enough of a seal?

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: JB on 03/16/2012 16:14:25 MDT Print View

It is probably OK to crimp the top can. However, that will leave a tiny weak spot there. Most aluminum cans like this can be stretched slightly.

I've managed to make most of my burners fit together without crimping them, except for the one that I made out of a tealight candle cup. But I used JB Weld on it.

--B.G.--

Ben F
(tekhna) - F
Burning out the sides on 03/16/2012 19:57:42 MDT Print View

So I did what you guys suggested, and just pressed it in, and worked rather well, except that it seems to be burning out the sides rather than the holes. So I guess the seal isn't tight enough? It burned very quickly.
StoveStove2

Edit-did a timed test, and it took a minute to prime, boiled two cups of water in 3.5 minutes, and burned for 5 minutes after priming, 6 minutes total. So pretty inefficient!

Edited by tekhna on 03/16/2012 20:55:48 MDT.

J Mole
(MoleJ) - F

Locale: UK
leaky joint on 03/17/2012 04:57:45 MDT Print View

Ben - if you look at Kevins instructions again, you will see that the lower/exterior can runs all the way to the top edge? This would take your 'edge' seal up to the top away from your burner jets.

Practice putting together cans a few times and you will manage a leak free seal. I found that need to be careful in the small amount of 'crimping' that may be neededto get a fit. Flaring the edges of the lower can slightly by pushing a similar unopened can in can help.

If only a small leak or 2, then a dab of JB Weld can salvage if you are not a perfectionist ;)

Having said all this, I always use a separate potstand (Cone is my preference). Standing a pan on a smaller stove (unless completly 'square') is always gonna be risky for a clumsy person like me.

For a simpler to makeand just as efficient (IME) stove, a Zen Stoves Chimney is a good start- can use with or without potstand in different modes.

But, although I like playing with homemade stoves I now use a Starlyte Stove for most of my trips!

Daniel Cox
(COHiker) - F

Locale: San Isabel NF
Easy press-fit on 03/17/2012 14:52:38 MDT Print View

I've had excellent results putting the 'inside' piece in the freezer, and the 'outside' piece in a pyrex cup of almost boiling water. wait 5 minutes, remove the pieces and quickly put them together. the contraction/expansion of aluminum is enough that they *almost* slide smoothly together. It usually buys me about 10 seconds to get them started, then they need to be pressed between my palm and the counter to finish placement.