Stove, pot, lid, pot stand, windscreen, and mug for 2.9oz(81g). If I'm hiking alone I can leave the mug and be at 2.5oz(71g). Lightest cook system?

I think I finally found my ideal stove setup, in the lightest iteration possible. Previously used alcohol and canisters, but didn't like how heavy the fuel was, and just didn't find alcohol all that user friendly. All of which brought me to esbit, after some online research. It seemed that esbit required the least amount of fuel weight per boil than any other fuel, and it's as easy as lighting it. No measuring, pouring, leaking, etc. No heavy fuel containers...

So here's a rundown of the system:
* Caldera keg gvp. (with modifications).
* Zelph 2 cup and 1 cup fosters pots.

Modifications:
* Caldera keg gvp - throw out everything that came with the system, except the windscreen/stand, the gram cracker stove, and the insulated stuff sack. Cut out the insulation from the stuff sack, cut off the tag and any excess cord. Replace aluminum ground plate(?) with a piece of aluminum foil cut to the diameter of the cone.

* Zelph cut down fosters pots - Throw out the lids, and the cool 90's slap bracelet. Use the bottom of the 1cup(mug) as the lid for the 2 cup pot!

I'm not sure that cutting up the fabric really saved me any weight, but it just seemed like an unnecessary amount of fabric, just to hold the two pots together.


full system next to original CC foster's pot


All deployed, ready to boil water, but where's the LID?!


Here's the lid! The mug is multi purpose, and fits perfectly on top of the pot.


I like having a separate mug for hot chocolate, or oatmeal, especially when I'm with the wife, and cooking for two. But how to justify the extra weight? I know, use it as the lid, for the pot! The zelph 1 cup mug sits perfectly on top of the 2 cup pot!


Now I just need to test how much fuel weight is needed to boil 2 cups. From my research, it seemed that esbit in the caldera cone used the least amount of fuel weight per boil than any other stove I could find. Testing to come!

Edited by stingray4540 on 03/17/2012 09:27:09 MDT.

I'd like to see your data results once you're done.

2.5 ounces total. wow!!!! I don't think I've seen any lower. You knocked it to the max. Nice selection. I'll have to do the same.
What do you use to pick up the hot pot?

Edited by zelph on 03/15/2012 20:53:36 MDT.

@William: Thanks, Hopefully I'll get a chance to do some boiling this weekend. I'll post the results here.

@Dan: Thanks, that is what I was going for. I've been using my silk bandana as a potholder for a long time. Multipurpose, and I don't have to carry around those heavy silicone bands.

Very cool and very light. Don't put your cup down on dirt unless you're after more "vitamins and minerals", though. :)

Very impressive!

One question though - Isn't cooking in aluminum considered dangerous long-term?

Nope....you'll get vastly more aluminum in your system from an antacid tablet and anti-persperants. Aluminum forms oxides in exposure to air (why pure aluminum pots turn gray after cooking with them) which also lowers aluminum absorption. You might want to avoid really acidic food and extended cooking times with an aluminum pan (like pure lemon juice reduced down to a syrup over several hours) but you could use anodized aluminum to overcome that issue.

Also, aluminum drink containers are coated inside, so the water isn't actually in contact with the aluminum unless I do something to destroy that lining.

Even if it wasn't, I don't think I spend enough time backpacking, that it would really do me any noticeable harm. It's not like I live in the woods, and eat this way 3 times a day.

Like Miles said, my antiperspirant probably does me more harm than this ever would.


@ Erik: How else am I supposed to get my vitamins and minerals in the woods?! See, the mug, is multi-multi-purpose! mug, lid, vitamin collector.

Edited by stingray4540 on 03/16/2012 11:28:58 MDT.

This may be the setup I've been looking for. I too have used alcohol and have not particularly cared for the setup and weights. I was torn between using the caldera setup with zelph's cups and making my own version. Suluk has a ti windscreen that def weighs less than the cone but still requires an esbit support, ground protection and stakes to support your pot. This setup would be multi use since you could use your tent stakes.

I don't know how the efficiency would compare to the caldera setup though. Not to mention, I think the setup would ultimately be cheaper.

Forgive me here but I'd like to play the critic for the moment...

Under what category do you place things like your eating utensils, lighter, etc? Do you intend to actually cook in the pot or just boil water? If just boiling water, how are you re-hydrating your meals? Will you be using a freezer bag cozy? Can you actually put the mug full of hot liquid up to your lips without burning yourself? I'm assuming your are going to use a bandana or gloves to hold the pot full of hot water...

Could you make an itemized list of each component and how much it weighs?

Thanks,
BM

He said it's his stove set-up. Not kitchen set-up.

Thanks for playing the critic.

Nice set-up you got there.

I have played with "UL" set-ups with cook systems in the past. My lightest one comes to 2.2 oz, not counting my cup, lighter or spoon. Here are those items:

Heine Cook Pot With Lid: 1 oz
Ti Folding Esbit Stove: 0.5 oz
Windscreen with Paperclip: 0.6 oz
ZPacks CF Stuff Sack: 0.1 oz

Here is a video I did on it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=k59VlJWNhc4

Of course, like I said, this does not include a lighter/fire steel or my spoon either. If I were to add in those weights:

Mini Bic: 0.4 oz
Ti Long handle Spoon: 0.5 oz

So, now this brings my weight up to 3.1 oz, which is still not too bad.

If I wanted to bring a cup I would bring my REI Campware cup which is another 1.8 oz...so now I would be up to 4.8 oz, which is still not completely bad, but it is starting to get up there...close to a point where I think about things...

As far as cooking in aluminum, that is not so much a concern for me when using these beer can pots as much as what is being leeched out of the plastic that separates the water from the aluminum. I have not done a whole lot of research into it, and when i say this, I have not found any official literature, nor do I know if any exists...all I know is that I have heard others talk about and mention in public forums that it is not a good thing. And this does make me wonder...is it good for me?

I have a few Heine cans which I have not used exclusively. I sent in one to Tinny a while back and let him turn it into a DBC for me. it is an awesome looking can, but it is heavier than I would like so it has really turned into a keepsake kinda thing since these cans are not available anymore...I have used it a handful of times to boil water, but that is it.

I have used a few of the Fosters cans though. I bought the rings from both Tinny and Smokeeater908 so I could buy my own beer can, cut it to the size I would like and then install the ring. (IMO, if you are going to use beer cans for your primary cook pots, these rings are the way to go since they can be removed and re-installed for only the cost of another beer can. The down side is that they do add more weight, but not much.)

Since I have started using the Foster's cans (not too long ago) I have had to replace 3 of them because the lining keeps bubbling up in the bottom corners. I am not sure why they are bubbling up so quickly though. I have used either a Mini Atomic, a knock-off Mini Atomic that I made (and actually works better and weighs less than the real thing) and one of Tinny's M2 stoves. So, I don't feel like the stoves are too hot for the can. As well, I have always placed them over the fire with water in them, so it is not because I am boiling them dry.

I would also like to add that I have only used these beer can cook pots in the field about 3 times...all the rest of the times have been here at home. I tend to use them for morning coffee or evening tea. So, they are not going from extreme cold to hot, so it should not be from "shock" either.

So, between the bubbling liners in the cans, and the fact that they are so fragile, along with the growing weight of adding in my cup, lighter and spoon...not to mention a way for me to actually cook the food (meaning a cozy since I hate to cook in my cook pots...I hate clean-up). Well, I decided that maybe beer can cook pots are not for me.

So, I looked back at my 700 ml Ti cook pot...and decided to make the kit that would work for me...here is a video and write up I did on my new kit on my blog:

http://sticksblog.com/2012/01/08/one-cook-kit-to-rule-them-all/

But, since then I have even made some changes to it, so here are the items:

Backcountry.com 700 ml Ti Pot w/ DIY Lid: 2.7 oz
DIY Cozy: 0.7 oz
DIY Mini Atomic Knock Off Stove in Baggie: 0.4 oz
DIY 5x18 Wire Pot Stand: 0.4 oz
Windscreen w/ Paperclip & Heat Reflector/Priming Pan: 0.6
ZPacks Cuben Fiber Stuff Sack: 0.1 oz
Mini Bic Lighter: 0.4 oz
1/2 LightLoad Towel: 0.25 oz
REI Long Handle Ti-Ware Spoon: 0.5 oz
REI Campware Cup: 1.8 oz

So, before I even give a total weight, I am sure that many of you are saying that is definitely not "UL" and I agree, but it is still light, durable, includes all components of the "cook system" and most of all, works for me. Saying that there are still a few ways I could cut a little more weight, and I may eventually...I could cut a few tenths of an oz by going with one of Suluk 46 Ti windscreen, I could get a lighter spoon for sure and I could mod the drinking cup some. I figure I could cut another 0.5 - 0.6 oz by doing this...so I may get around to it one day...

But, for those of you that have not added up the weights, the total weight of the above listed items are 7.85 oz. And again, this is everything (except fuel), and more importantly, the Ti pot is a hundred times more durable than my beer can pot.

Anyway, sorry for the long post...just wanted to share...

Seems like a great, fairly inexpensive kit for a dayhike or small weekend backpacking trip.

@ Ultra:

-Yeah, this is my cook kit, not my whole kitchen.
-Lighter will be a mini bic, and a bamboo spork w/ carbon fiber handle DIY monstrosity.
-No plans to cook, just boil water, and freezer bag cooking, or regular mountain house cooking. Cooking takes too long, and washing dishes in the woods, sucks.
-I've never had a problem with burning my lips. If the liquid isn't too hot to drink, the mug won't be either. At least that has been my experience.
-Yes, I use my silk bandana as a pot holder.

Stuff sack - 6g
Pot - 24g
Mug - 14g
Cone - 32g
Stove - 3g
Heat shield (aluminum under stove) - 1g
TOTAL - 80g (2.8oz)

Since I was weighing stuff...

Spork - 5g
mini bic - 11g
KITCHEN TOTAL - 95g (3.35oz)

@ Seth:
Sounds like something worth looking into. I'd be interested in comparing the weights and fuel efficiency. If the fuel efficiency is too much different, that could turn the system into a heavier system over longer trips. Get it, and test it so we can compare notes. Do it, do it! In the name of SCIENCE!

@ Chad:
Interesting about the lining lifting. I've used beer keg pots before, and have never had that happen. Maybe you're jinxed...





P.S. Here's a litte teaser of my first boil result.

2 Cup boil:
Water start temp - 63*F
Time to 200*F - 7:52
Time to 212*F - 8:32
Start fuel weight(1 tab) - 14g (0.5oz)
Remaining fuel weight - 4g
Fuel used - 10g (0.35oz)

If the next two tests show the same results, then 3 tabs should get you 4 two cup boils.

Edited by stingray4540 on 03/16/2012 20:37:16 MDT.

Maybe I am jinxed...I dunno...I wonder if any others out there has had their beer can pots bubble up? Surely I can't be the only one...

Anywhoo... I will still use my setup that I listed at 2.2 oz occasionally on day hikes and maybe even some overnight trips (especially if I am really just trying to cut weight). I do like using esbit though...but for longer trips I will carry my more reliable set-up I listed.

Sorry about the drift, but I just noticed Chad's DIY aluminum lid on his cookpot. I've watched the video before but this time I noticed how well it fits. Chad, how'd you get that nice lip? I use a 12cm Imusa with a cut out pie tin, but it's just a circle, I haven't worked out a good fit. Did you just bend by hand, or do you have something else that fits just so that you were able to press it?

Thanks,
Jeff

PS: My entire kitchen weighs 5.5 oz with the Imusa, cat can stove, sundries that go with it. Thought I'd add something kinda relevant here.

PPS: I put food in my cookpot to prevent rattling, and dry it out after boiling water with either my beanie, glove, or if its warm my bandanna; depends on the trip and conditions of the moment. For the food, instant soup and a couple VIA packs work. Minimizes excess stuff and weight, and it makes the food multipurpose!

Edited by j.j.81 on 03/17/2012 08:11:03 MDT.

@ Chad:
Finally got a chance to watch your videos. Looks like I've been beat weight wise. And, you say around 9 min. for a boil which sounds pretty close to what I got on my first boil, even if it is just an estimate.

How do you find the stability of that stove/stand when your pot is full? I've played with hardware stands and my pocket rocket(similar to your esbit stove) with the beer keg pots, and the lack of stability really scared me. I actually had my pot fall over once. Luckily not on me...
That is one thing I REALLY like about the cone. Seems it's costing me .2 oz though, grrrrr.

Nice setups Nick and Chad!

Chad, a 16 oz size plastic ziploc bowl is 0.9 oz without lid. I use one as my mug. Rubbermaid and maybe Ziploc also have a smaller 8 oz bowl which weighs even less.

Chad be releived to know you are not jinxed.

The bubbles occur during manufacturing.

Thanks Dan. That is interesting...I never thought about it being from manufacturing...

Jeff, I assume that you are referring to the lid on my Backcountry pot and not on the Heine pot... So, for the BC Ti pot, I used some aluminum that I got in a roll from Hobby Lobby. I actually molded the DIY lid using the ti lid that came with the cook pot. I just put the aluminum on top of the pot and shoved the original lid down over the aluminum and then molded it the rest of the way with my fingers, then I used some old scissors to cut the excess aluminum from around the edges.

So far it has worked really well, however, on my last trip my cup got pushed into the lid and bent it a little. I was able to fix it with a little effort so it was not really a problem. However, this is one of those compromises with these types of things I guess.

I also have an IMUSA 10 cm mug/pot. I cut the handle off and IIRC it weighs in at like 2.3 oz...I have been tempted to get a lid to fit it from Tinny or Smokeeater908...

Nick, as far as stability...I do have to be aware when setting the beer can cook pot on the stand. With this stove I have found that really the wide diameter pots are a much more stable match, but there are things that can be done to ensure a stable set-up with the smaller diameter cook pots. The biggest thing is to make sure that the area that I choose to cook on is as flat and stable as possible. If the area is not flat and on a slight hill it is not a good idea to set up this stove there. Then, as long as the area is ideal, I just make sure to set the cook pot on the stove slow and easy. Once it is on there I slip the windscreen around the set-up and it is fine.

I also try not to keep peeking inside the pot by lifting the lid. I can usually tell when the water is boiling by the noise and the amount of steam coming out of the holes in the lid. (I love the sound when the water is starting to heat up... :) )

Also, if it is very windy I make sure to sit with the set-up or place it inside/behind a natural wind block.

And yep, on average in this stove I get 9 minute boils and about 16 minutes for a burn out. Of course, this has been during the warm months so I cannot say how it will do in the colder months. Also, I do not have anything to measure water temps so I cannot elaborate on that.

I can blow out the flame once my water comes to a boil and save and reuse the remaining tablet, but once I blow it out I am not sure if I would want to use it again for another full boil. Problem is that the remaining amount would not be enough to fully bring another 2 cups to a boil. So to use the rest of this tablet to boil another 2 full cups, I would have to begin heating water, watch the stove for the tablet to finish burning out, then remove the cook pot with the somewhat heated water, put in another tablet, light and reposition the cook pot on the stove. Plus, the water would begin to cool somewhat as this process takes place, so I am not so sure that it would be completely effective.

However, I usually find that I don't have to add all of the water in my initial 2 cup boil to my food bag to rehydrate my meal, so in this case it would be ok to add in a little extra water after pouring out what I need for my food, and then using the remaining tablet to heat up about 1 cup of water for either a drink to to clean up with...

For me I always just plan 1 tablet with each meal. And at 0.5 oz each, this is still half the weight as what I usually carry in alcohol fuel since I use 1 oz of alcohol for each meal.

Anyway, I have not had any experience with the cones (but I really want a Sidewinder for use with my 0.9L Evernew pot...) but I would imagine that it is probably quite a bit more stable than this WetFire Stove. But, at these weights, there are definitely compromises to make, or requires a little more attention than normal. I guess it is the price we pay for light weight systems...

Andy, I have a few of those Ziploc containers. Some are actually used as the holders for my cook system. But that is a good point to replace my REI cup with one of these... One thing that I have always been leery of though is drinking directly from a cup that my cook pot has been stored in. Especially when that cook pot has Esbit or wood soot all over the bottom...but then again I guess that I could keep it in the stuff sack too... hhmmm... Thanks for the thought...

Edited by Stick on 03/17/2012 14:27:48 MDT.