I only try to be half -healthy. A trail run but then In-n-Out, red wine last night. I wonder how close I'm hittin' it?

It's not that "red meat is killing you"

It's that "corn fed red meat is killing you"

Cows were evolutionarily designed to eat grass. Their stomachs don't digest corn properly.

The ratio of Omega 3 to Omega 6 fatty acids in the meat are wrong, which makes them unhealthful for us to eat.

They need to do a study that compares grass fed beef to corn fed beef.

I have read about this in a book "Real Food" and other places also, but I don't totally believe it.

"Cognitive Dissonance" - my favorite two words

nm

Edited by mjones on 03/13/2012 12:22:22 MDT.

The women were in the study were all nurses. The men were all "health professionals"(dentists, veterinarians, pharmacists, optometrists, osteopathic physicians, and podiatrists).

I don't go by studies. Why? Over 70% are funded by pharmaceutical companies that are hoping for a favorable outcome(for their drug) from the get-go.

Just eat what our ancestors ate prior to the age of health dogma. Studies are nearly alway's wrong or they confirm the obvious.

"Just eat what our ancestors ate prior to the age of health dogma."

They have Mammoths in your parts?

>The women were in the study were all nurses. The men were all "health professionals"(dentists, veterinarians, pharmacists, optometrists, osteopathic physicians, and podiatrists).

That means diddly. Just because they work in the health field doesn't make them healthy people. There are doctors smoke. Dentists who drink. Nurses who eat inordinate amount of carbs. Pharmacists who are overweight. Etc.


Bacon!

So blessed ignorance is the solution?

"Sadly, this is the same reasoning that allows people to believe all sorts of demonstrably untrue things: that Obama is a Muslim, that 9/11 was an inside job, that Iraq had WMDs. "

Yeah, confirmation bias is why we have lots of things, I can certainly catch myself demonstrating it at times. I'll bet we all can. But I'd point out that questioning results is not necessarily dismissing them outright. After all, isn't that what a good scientist does, and what advances science? You just need to question the results you like as fervently as you question those you don't like. So I think we agree.

But to the matter at hand, I'm not sure one can easily define "premature death." I have an issue with that phrase itself. Our bodies break down, we die. Something, at some time, is going to break down and we're going to die. We can use average life spans, I guess, to judge certain things against, but our bodies, while sharing basic characteristics and genes, are also very unique.

I have no doubt, actually, that red meat can help something break down earlier than it might otherwise. But then, I think that anything we put into our bodies can help something break down, while at the same time helping other parts of our complicated system thrive. The difficulty becomes balancing whatever positive effects against whatever negative effects, taking in to account intangibles like pleasure and enjoyment and such. It could drive you batty.

So I'm with some of the other posters - most things in moderation, stay active, and above all, be happy. I think the last thing does more to ensure an enjoyable long life than just about anything else.

And as far as premature death: as I've said many times before, breathing ain't living. I'm not here to breathe as long as I can, I'm here to live as long as I can. And only I can define living for me - not some politician, not some religion, not some health advocate, not some special interest group, etc. etc. So when I'm no longer living, by my definition, I'll do whatever is necessary to ensure I stop breathing as well, prematurely or not.

Scott S wrote, "I love these kinds of discussion threads because they exhibit one of the most interesting psychological traits that people show: confirmation bias. Basically, when people have a belief, they tend to accept evidence that supports their belief, but they reject evidence that contradicts it. So, folks who think that eating meat is okay find reasons to think that this study is BS.

Sadly, this is the same reasoning that allows people to believe all sorts of demonstrably untrue things: that Obama is a Muslim, that 9/11 was an inside job, that Iraq had WMDs. "


I would add another 'American' phenomenon -- the propensity of us Americans to file seemingly every issue into just one of two buckets -- the extremes of either all black or all white!! Red meat kills. Cotton kills. LNT is another such issue that is too often taken to the extreme!

But life is full of options -- and often complicated. Take in the studies by all means -- then apply judiciously to your lives. Strike a balance that works for you. And worry less about others.

Edited by ben2world on 03/13/2012 12:46:40 MDT.

"Just eat what our ancestors ate prior to the age of health dogma."

-very few of our ancestors lived past 30
-cave man didn't care if he had high cholesterol, heart disease, or degenerative disc disease; it was irrelevant from an evolutionary standpoint because he was not reproducing after 30 years.
-it seems there need to be some diet adjustments based on how my health goals differ from caveman's evolutionary needs

"Cyrus Jones 1810 to 1913
Made his great granchildren believe
You could live to a hundred and three
A hundred and three is forever when you're just a little kid
So Cyrus Jones lived forever"

VERY few of our ancestors made it one year, this greatly skews the average lifespan data.

So blessed ignorance is the solution?


No. A healthy lifestyle, moderation and not jumping on the latest bandwagon/ study is the solution. No one single study or report is going to make me change my diet, which is quite sensible to begin with.
This reminds me of another recent study and the AMA recommendation not to sleep with your infant. Numbers show it's not safe...don't do it. These numbers include parents that either drink too much, are obese, take drugs, have strangers in their bed etc. It's going to take way more than that to convince me that my daughter was not the safest right next to me as an infant. A drug addicted parent may need to be told to not sleep with their child. An overweight nurse with bad eating habits may have to be discouraged from eating yet another burger. Those of us that take a little better care of ourselves are probably not endangered by a weekly piece of meat.
Ethical reasons are another matter and legitimate at that.

http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2012/01/13/Owning-TV-car-ups-heart-attack-risk/UPI-92901326432713/

OK, that settles it. I am going off beef. Bacon tastes better anyway.

Are you saying 9/11 wasn't an inside job?

I though Cheney planted the explosives

Who said I was talking about cavemen? Their bones tend to show little to no signs of disease and they tended to be taller and had much stronger bones than those post-agriculture, but I never mentioned cavemen.

Let's just look at the Kitavins who are still around today. They were extensively studied and found to posses NONE of the chronic degenerative diseases that we are stricken with in western civilization. Their diet? Very high in the dreaded saturated fat due to consumption of coconut. They don't eat processed foods and they don't eat grains. Their live span is shorter than in western civilization but they aren't killed by preventable disease. They die from accidents and infections that are prevelent in the region. I guess you could say I model my diet off of the Kitavins and similar hunter-gatherer peoples.

Yes, I read studies but I don't live by them. How many studies showed that phenphen was safe? Sometimes blissful ignorance is better than fretting over every morsel you put into your body. I eat whole foods, not processed crap. I know enough to know that there is not much else I can do to optimze my diet after taking that first step.

http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2012/01/13/Owning-TV-car-ups-heart-attack-risk/UPI-92901326432713/

@ Jonathon: Brilliant! Watching TV in a car while eating red meat! Death for sure!!!

I love these kinds of discussion threads because they exhibit one of the most interesting psychological traits that people show: confirmation bias. Basically, when people have a belief, they tend to accept evidence that supports their belief, but they reject evidence that contradicts it. So, folks who think that eating meat is okay find reasons to think that this study is BS.

Sadly, this is the same reasoning that allows people to believe all sorts of demonstrably untrue things: that Obama is not a Muslim, that 9/11 was not an inside job, that Iraq didn't have WMDs.

See what I did there?

BM