Forum Index » GEAR » McHale dyed cuben packs.


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Thom Darrah
(thomdarrah) - MLife

Locale: Southern Oregon
McHale dyed cuben packs. on 03/09/2012 10:38:18 MST Print View

Dan has finaly posted pictures of the new dyed cuben McHale packs, very cool!

McHale-1

Edited by thomdarrah on 04/01/2012 10:18:48 MDT.

Andrew Jennings
(breaktheshoal) - MLife

Locale: West of the Mississippi
Is that cuben? on 03/09/2012 11:34:19 MST Print View

Hey Thom,

I could be completely wrong about this, but the picture you posted looks like one of Dan's full dyneema packs. Regardless, beautiful craftsmanship! I managed to snag a Critical Mass MB II panel/top-loader hybrid in full dyneema when he still offered it. LOVE IT! McHale Packs are worth every penny.

-Andrew

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Is that cuben? on 03/09/2012 11:37:02 MST Print View

NM

Edited by FamilyGuy on 06/17/2013 10:03:10 MDT.

Thom Darrah
(thomdarrah) - MLife

Locale: Southern Oregon
McHale dyed cuben packs. on 03/09/2012 11:42:06 MST Print View

The material used is a McHale specific cuben hybrid, here is a quote from the McHale site.

"This week I have about 4 Dyed Hybrid Cuben packs to photograph with more to come. This is sort of a Dyed Cuben debut! It's a Merkebeiner 34. I will get some specs up soon."

Edited by thomdarrah on 03/09/2012 11:54:41 MST.

Steven Hanlon
(asciibaron) - F

Locale: Mid Atlantic
very bad thread on 03/09/2012 13:03:39 MST Print View

this is going to make me want another McHale pack. was on his site, man those new packs look sweet.

Benjamin Moryson
(hrXXL) - MLife

Locale: Germany
McHale on 03/09/2012 15:48:45 MST Print View

And now the final question. How expensive is such a pack?

Kenneth Houseal
(Homewardbound)
Price on 03/09/2012 16:25:02 MST Print View

I'm not completely sure, but I think Dan said the Cuben material only adds a little over $100(not including dye). I was going to have Dan build me A Cuben LBP36, I just didn't have the time to get in all the demoing I need. Dan was going to use like 3.6oz sqyd cuben for "extreme"(my words) durability. I think he said the tear resistance was like 321 lbs per square inch, for that weight cuben, again don't quote me on that.

When I get done with my upcoming 6 month trek a Cuben McHale will be back on the top of my list, for sure.

Edited by Homewardbound on 03/09/2012 16:29:15 MST.

Todd Hein
(todd1960) - MLife

Locale: Coastal Southern California
McHale - This is my pack on 03/09/2012 19:01:20 MST Print View

According to Dan I should have it in my hands next week.

Stephan Doyle
(StephanCal)
Re: McHale - This is my pack on 03/10/2012 02:03:57 MST Print View

Todd, can you fill us in more on this material?

Is this a Spectra Lite, or a Dyneema X Plus?

It looks a little heavier than the HMG material, which is really great stuff. My climbing buddies get jealous with the burliness of the material.

Todd Hein
(todd1960) - MLife

Locale: Coastal Southern California
Cuben McHale Pack on 03/10/2012 08:31:13 MST Print View

The body of the pack is 3.4 Cuben, dyed gray.

Jace Mullen
(climberslacker) - F

Locale: Your guess is as good as mine.
McHale dyed Cuben Packs on 03/10/2012 09:01:30 MST Print View

Todd,

Beautiful pack.

Todd Hein
(todd1960) - MLife

Locale: Coastal Southern California
McHale Cuben Pack on 03/10/2012 09:14:10 MST Print View

I'll take it on a 2-day trip next weekend, if I get it by then, and post comments and more photos. By the way, i had it made with the option of carrying an empty bear can vertically on the back of the pack:

New Merke with Bear can attached

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Cuben McHale Pack on 03/10/2012 09:54:05 MST Print View

nm

Edited by FamilyGuy on 02/18/2014 12:43:48 MST.

Todd Hein
(todd1960) - MLife

Locale: Coastal Southern California
McHale pack on 03/10/2012 15:45:10 MST Print View

Yes, I think the bottom is Spectra (I let Dan decide on exact specs). I don't think the back is, though. I'm sure Dan thought of this and provided for it. I'll know more when I see the pack. I only use the bear can about 2 weeks per year, so I don't expect it to be an issue.

Edited by todd1960 on 03/10/2012 15:58:36 MST.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: McHale pack on 03/10/2012 15:57:22 MST Print View

NM

Edited by FamilyGuy on 06/17/2013 10:03:45 MDT.

Thom Darrah
(thomdarrah) - MLife

Locale: Southern Oregon
McHale dyed cuben packs. on 03/10/2012 17:15:09 MST Print View

Below is a blue cuben McHale Bump-32.

McHale-2

Edited by thomdarrah on 04/01/2012 10:20:12 MDT.

Kenneth Houseal
(Homewardbound)
Blue Cuben McHale on 03/10/2012 17:20:11 MST Print View

That is a thing of beauty.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: McHale dyed cuben packs. on 03/10/2012 17:20:33 MST Print View

NM

Edited by FamilyGuy on 06/17/2013 10:04:26 MDT.

Thom Darrah
(thomdarrah) - MLife

Locale: Southern Oregon
McHale dyed cuben packs. on 03/10/2012 17:36:55 MST Print View

A nice mix of materials for sure.

From the McHale site:
"I tagged it 'MultiCuben' as well, since the kangaroo pocket, water pockets, and some other parts are Hybrid Cuben, yet the shiny Cuben is more conventional but with the heavier duty Mylar. Those shiny parts are CT5 High-Bias Cuben."

Edited by thomdarrah on 03/10/2012 17:42:04 MST.

Thom Darrah
(thomdarrah) - MLife

Locale: Southern Oregon
McHale dyed cuben packs. on 03/10/2012 20:04:08 MST Print View

Hybrid Cuben Brown/Grey Bump-32

McHale-3

Edited by thomdarrah on 04/01/2012 10:21:27 MDT.

Christopher Yi
(TRAUMAhead)

Locale: Cen Cal
Re: McHale dyed cuben packs. on 03/11/2012 01:07:04 MST Print View

What are the side loops on the top lid used for?

Bobby Pack
(Piddler) - MLife

Locale: West Virginia
Re: McHale dyed cuben packs. on 03/11/2012 19:12:27 MDT Print View

Isn't she hot! The blue Bump is mine. Dan sent me two fabric samples and I liked both of them. There is a description of the fabrics used in Dan's Letter on his web site.

Can't wait to hit the trail with it.

Thom Darrah
(thomdarrah) - MLife

Locale: Southern Oregon
McHale dyed cuben packs. on 03/11/2012 20:32:02 MDT Print View

Great to see the BPL McHale pack users growing in number.

Edited by thomdarrah on 03/12/2012 05:42:50 MDT.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: McHale threads on 03/11/2012 20:33:44 MDT Print View

It's torture.

Steven Hanlon
(asciibaron) - F

Locale: Mid Atlantic
Re: Re: McHale dyed cuben packs. on 03/12/2012 05:30:06 MDT Print View

"What are the side loops on the top lid used for?"

the top lid turns into a fanny pack.

diego dean
(cfionthefly) - M
wow on 03/12/2012 06:05:09 MDT Print View

Never really looked into the Mchale packs, but took a look at his website and they are things of beauty!!

Question, why do you want to attach an empty bear canister to the back? I could see a pack being able to carry a bear canister full of food on the back as useful, but I must be missing something here.

Larry M
(Maethros) - MLife

Locale: Mid South
Re: wow on 03/12/2012 07:16:39 MDT Print View

"Question, why do you want to attach an empty bear canister to the back? I could see a pack being able to carry a bear canister full of food on the back as useful, but I must be missing something here."

You don't want all the weight of the food that far away from your body, and you want the pack bag size as small and close to your back as possible. So while you are moving your food is in the pack and you place it in the cannister once you stop to camp.

diego dean
(cfionthefly) - M
i see on 03/12/2012 08:23:12 MDT Print View

makes sence about the bear cannister, i guess that the food packs up smaller by itself in the backpack rather than just putting the food in the cannister in the backpack to begin with...

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: wow on 03/12/2012 08:49:15 MDT Print View

nm

Edited by FamilyGuy on 02/18/2014 12:44:46 MST.

Luke Schmidt
(Cameron) - MLife

Locale: The WOODS
Why? on 03/12/2012 09:10:26 MDT Print View

I'm just curious why use cuban hybrid? Is it better than other fabric choices? Are you really saving that much weight?

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Why? on 03/12/2012 10:08:46 MDT Print View

nm

Edited by FamilyGuy on 02/18/2014 12:45:16 MST.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: McHale dyed cuben packs. on 03/13/2012 11:40:53 MDT Print View

Todd and Bobby,

Both are beautiful packs... you are going to love them. Of course you already know that since you got use a demo.

McHale packs are incredibly comfortable, well built, and of course works of art :)

The cuben Dan uses are different hybrids. Not really lighter than most of the other fabrics he sells, and incredibly strong. The laminates are used to mitigate abrasion damage, plus he has figured out how to dye them too. Keep in mind that Dan has tested and experimented with cuben for several years before bringing it to market.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
Bear canister attatchments on 03/13/2012 12:55:31 MDT Print View

I sometimes carry my old Garcia bear canister on the top of my pack.
To keep it securely strapped I did the following:

MATERIALS:
> 4 polymer 3/4" D rings (REI)
> Gorilla duct tape (Lowe's)

FABRICATION:
> Split the Gorilla duct tape so it will fit inside the D rings.
> Hold the 4 D rings in place according to your pack's lash points with 4" pieces of tape.
> tape the D rings with long duct tape strips all the way around the cannister TWICE. (That should be only two circumfrential wrappings of duct tape, one for each set of D rings.)

Now you have 4 lash points on your bear canister.

Edited by Danepacker on 03/13/2012 12:57:58 MDT.

Thom Darrah
(thomdarrah) - MLife

Locale: Southern Oregon
McHale dyed cuben packs. on 03/18/2012 07:47:04 MDT Print View

hybrid cuben McHale LBP-34

McHale-4

Edited by thomdarrah on 04/01/2012 10:23:00 MDT.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: McHale dyed cuben packs. on 03/18/2012 08:25:08 MDT Print View

nm

Edited by FamilyGuy on 02/18/2014 12:45:55 MST.

Chris W
(simplespirit) - MLife

Locale: WNC
Re: Re: Re: Re: McHale dyed cuben packs. on 03/18/2012 08:32:48 MDT Print View

Per HMG (& cubic tech), it can be dyed but that haven't found anything that's colorfast yet. "It" being the outer nylon or poly and not the cuben.

Edited by simplespirit on 03/18/2012 08:33:43 MDT.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: McHale dyed cuben packs. on 03/18/2012 08:37:12 MDT Print View

Meaning that it will wear or discolor over time?

Thom Darrah
(thomdarrah) - MLife

Locale: Southern Oregon
McHale dyed cuben packs. on 03/18/2012 08:44:49 MDT Print View

Dan has been dying dyneema/spectra material for years and likely has a system that works well in regard to holding the color (my dyneema LBP-34 has held its color well).

Edited by thomdarrah on 03/18/2012 08:53:03 MDT.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: McHale dyed cuben packs. on 03/18/2012 08:47:47 MDT Print View

Thom, I was speaking of the cuben. I had no issue with the dyed spectra on my pack.

Thom Darrah
(thomdarrah) - MLife

Locale: Southern Oregon
McHale dyed cuben packs. on 03/18/2012 08:52:02 MDT Print View

The hybrid cuben may be different in regard to dying but as difficult as dyneema/spectra is to color I would guess Dan has it figured out.

Rakesh Malik
(Tamerlin)

Locale: Cascadia
Re: McHale dyed cuben packs. on 03/18/2012 18:43:00 MDT Print View

It's been a while since I got mine, but when I ordered it Dan said that the dye was basically painted onto the Dyneema fabric, and does on occasion start flaking off. He might have found a new dye since then, but it's possible that the only thing on his packs that isn't durable is the dye.

:)
It makes the packs look a lot older than they really are though, which can be a fringe benefit, because the sorts of people who would steal packs generally won't steal the ones that look really beaten up. Dan warned me about the coatings on them; if you're not careful when you clean them, you can easily take them off, which I think reduces the fabric's water resistance. Given their cost, no one who isn't serious about getting out into the wilderness, so McHale packs tend to get used... so they look dirty and well-used, even though under the patina of grit they're as good as new. :)

Stephan Doyle
(StephanCal)
Re: Re: McHale dyed cuben packs. on 03/18/2012 19:17:22 MDT Print View

Rakesh (or anyone else), do you have any pictures of yours flaking in spots?

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: McHale dyed cuben packs. on 03/18/2012 19:33:00 MDT Print View

"generally won't steal the ones that look really beaten up"

I wish that were true! Long story.

Rakesh Malik
(Tamerlin)

Locale: Cascadia
Re: Re: Re: McHale dyed cuben packs. on 03/18/2012 20:49:44 MDT Print View

"I wish that were true! Long story."

Well, I did say "generally" :(

Mine isn't showing any flaking, so I don't have any pictures of that. Mine also doesn't have any coloring though, which may have something to do with it.

Just to be clear though, it's the dye that Dan said flakes off sometimes, not the fabric's coating or anything like that. Whether or not he's solved the issue of the dye coming off I don't know. I think my pack looks fine without the color, so I'm a happy camper... when I get to go camping.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Re: Re: McHale dyed cuben packs. on 03/21/2012 13:45:00 MDT Print View

"Nick, is this hybrid cuben stronger than the spectra?

FWIW, HMG had some blue packs for sale recently so this hybrid cuben can definitely be dyed."

I don't think any fabric is stronger than Spectra/Dyneema. Its used for bullet proof vests and Ursacks :)

I think the Cuben Dan uses has Spectra in it. Also the lamination make it more abrasion proof. Apparently Dan also has some Cuben with a type of outer lamination that allows him to dye it. Dan has many kinds of Cuben in stock, so no blanket statements.

Regarding the dye... Dan is not soaking materials in dye, he is applying a colored coating on the Spectra. Not sure what is process is for Cuben, but I would guess it might be the same. None of the "dye" has come off my LBP. But I suppose that dragging it across granite could scrape it off. My encounters with rocks, brush, and trees has not phased the pack or the color coat.

Thom Darrah
(thomdarrah) - MLife

Locale: Southern Oregon
McHale dyed cuben packs. on 03/28/2012 07:08:31 MDT Print View

Below is a new hybrid cuben Merkebeiner now up on the McHale site. "The fabric of the pack is dyed Cuben Hybrid CT9 with a lighter Cuben for the rear pocket (... stripped of pockets form it is 2 lbs., 1.8 oz. - that's still with its 1/2" padded foam back, twin stay 7075-T6 frame...)."

McHale-5

Edited by thomdarrah on 04/01/2012 10:24:27 MDT.

Keith F
(hamerica) - M

Locale: Northern Virginia
HMG Packs on 03/28/2012 08:02:40 MDT Print View

The blue HMG packs seen recently are not cuben, they are VX21. I bought one from the swap a couple months ago.

Thom Darrah
(thomdarrah) - MLife

Locale: Southern Oregon
McHale dyed cuben packs. on 04/01/2012 08:54:21 MDT Print View

New from the McHale site;

"Here's a Cuben pack with Full Spectra Kangaroo and bottom that's headed for the PCT. It is CT22 Hybrid Cuben which is about the same weight as 210 Dyneema X grid."

2012 McHale

Edited by thomdarrah on 04/01/2012 11:27:46 MDT.

Dan Durston
(dandydan)

Locale: Cascadia
Cuben hybrid: Decoding the numbers on 02/23/2013 14:30:43 MST Print View

Anyone understand the different variants of hybrid cuben out there? I'd love to know the situation with different weights of polyester and cuben linings.

From this thread and the McHale site, we see references to CT9, CT13 and CT22 hybrid cuben fabrics, and references to weights of 3.4, 3.6oz & 4.2oz per yard. We are told CT22 weighs about the same as 210D Dyneema grid, and McHale's site says CT13 is 3.6oz stuff. Perhaps CT9 is likely the 3.4oz stuff and CT22 is 4.2oz/yd unless Dan's using more than 3 variants. Maybe the last number refer to denier? (90D, 130D, 220D?).

HMG doesn't give very much info on their site, but the word on BPL is that it's 3.3oz. Zpacks uses stuff they claim is 2.92oz/yd (99g/m2) and uses 50D polyester. ULA has hybrid cuben that spec'd slightly heavier (102g/m2), which works out to 3.0oz/yd2. From ULA, this 3.0oz stuff has the code CT5K.18/wov32.c. The first half of that is easily understood but 'wov32' is a mystery because 32 seems too low to be denier.

I got a sample of the stuff from ULA and there's no perceivable difference in the polyester between that and HMG's stuff.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Cuben hybrid: Decoding the numbers on 02/23/2013 16:09:45 MST Print View

It's all magic.

Or Greek.

Brendan Swihart
(brendans) - MLife

Locale: Fruita CO
Re: Cuben hybrid: Decoding the numbers on 02/23/2013 16:49:47 MST Print View

Hey Dan,
I corresponded with Cubic and got some samples a while back. Some sample specs:
CT9K.18/wov.32
• Average Weight: 124 g/m^2 (3.7 oz/yd^2)
• Average Tensile Strength (ASTM D3039, Bollard Grips): 305 lbs/in
• Average Tear Strength (Mil-C-21189 10.2.4, Slit Tear - First Peak): 56 lbs
• Average Puncture Strength Probe B (ASTM F1342 - First Peak): 7.8 lbs

CT9K.18/wov.75
• Estimated Weight: 176 g/m^2 (5.2 oz/yd^2)
• Estimated Tensile Strength (ASTM D3039, Bollard Grips): 305 lbs/in

CT10SHBK.18/wov.75
• Average Weight: 201 g/m^2 (5.9 oz/yd^2)
• Average Tensile Strength (ASTM D3039, Bollard Grips): 333 lbs/in
• Average Tear Strength (Mil-C-21189 10.2.4, Slit Tear - First Peak): 141 lbs
• Average Puncture Strength Probe B (ASTM F1342 - First Peak): 12.6 lbs


So, there's basically any of the "regular" cubens laminated to one of two (probably more) weights of face fabric. Based on these specs and specs of non laminated cuben, the stuff HMG is using must be CT5K.18/wov.32 (from the above, you can deduct that adding the wov.32 to CT9K.18 adds 65.3 gsm; if you add that to CT5K.18 you end up with about 111 gsm which is 1 g off from the HMG spec). McHale mentions using a high bias cuben in the versions he's using. The wov.75 versions are quite a bit more abrasion resistant and have much less needle hole elongation under stress. It's really great fabric. After playing with it a bit I kinda think HMG is crazy for not using the wov.75. I don't know what the CT9, CT13, etc mean.

Dan Durston
(dandydan)

Locale: Cascadia
Cuben Hybrid Decoded on 02/23/2013 18:08:15 MST Print View

Excellent Brendan. I appreciate you sharing that info. That wov.75 stuff does sounds great for higher abrasion applications. Your theory on ULA & HMG using CT5K.18/wov.32 makes sense.

[Edited to remove wrong info in light of Brendan's follow up]

Edited by dandydan on 02/23/2013 19:57:25 MST.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Cuben Hybrid Decoded on 02/23/2013 18:16:29 MST Print View

nm

Edited by FamilyGuy on 02/18/2014 12:48:31 MST.

Brendan Swihart
(brendans) - MLife

Locale: Fruita CO
Re: Cuben Hybrid Decoded on 02/23/2013 18:22:33 MST Print View

I think that the Zpacks is a lighter face than the wov.32. From their site:
"This material is made from the same 1.43 oz/sqyd Cuben Fiber as seen above on the inside, with a protective layer of 50 Denier Polyester on the outside. "

So, it's gotta still be CT5K.18. I think McHale is using the HBK variants.

Dan Durston
(dandydan)

Locale: Cascadia
McHale on 02/23/2013 19:53:45 MST Print View

Good points about Zpacks using CT5K.18. That stuff weighs 48.4g/m2 and the hybrid weighs 99g/m2, so the wov layer must weigh 51g. It's gotta be wov.20-ish.

I've always thought HMG's polyester (wov.32) looks to be about 70D and that makes sense if Zpacks is using an 50D weighing 3/4 as much.

It seems like McHale's CT9, CT13 and CT22 simply refer to the first part of Cubic Tech's model codes that tell the amount of spectra present. You'll notice on Cubic Tech's product sheets that the increments they do of spectra are

CT2.5K, CT5K, CT9K, CT13K, CT18K, CT22K

9, 13 and 22 all happen to be available quantities of spectra, so CT9 likely refers to CT9K worth of spectra etc. I suspect he's not using high-bias because as far as I can tell, all of his talk about high-bias was from before he started playing with hybrid cuben. I think he felt that the regular versions of cuben didn't hold up well enough, so he played around with high bias for a while before moving on to hybrid cuben. High bias is neat, but it does nothing to solve abrasion resistance, which is regular cuben's achilles heal, so opting for thicker mylar or heavier polyester is a better use of weight.

I presume he's using wov.32, because wov.75 is too heavy to fit with his stated numbers and I doubt he'd go lighter than 32. If McHale's CT9 does refer to CT9K, and he's using wov.32, then he must be using the 0.08 mylar if his numbers are correct. CT13K.08/wov.32 would be 3.71oz, whereas CT13K.18/wov.32 would be 3.9oz - kinda far off from Dan's statement that his CT13 weighs 3.6oz.

So the Rosetta stone might be:
CT9 = CT9K.08/wov.32
CT13 = CT13K.08/wov.32
CT22 = CT22K.08/wov.32

Some quick calculations reveal these theoretical fabrics to weigh 3.44, 3.71 and 4.18oz/yd2, which matches rather well with Dan's numbers of 3.4, 3.6 and 4.2oz. I am a bit surprised that 0.08 mylar is what makes sense with the calculations though. There's always a possibility that Dan's weights are off and he's using .18 mylar like everyone else, but it seems like he's opted for more spectra but less mylar. If he was using .18 mylar then these fabrics would weigh 3.65, 3.9 and 4.4oz/yd - plausible but a less clear match.

Edited by dandydan on 02/23/2013 22:47:15 MST.

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
Re: McHale on 02/23/2013 22:14:31 MST Print View

I love this site

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
I feel a bumper sticker coming on. on 02/24/2013 12:23:46 MST Print View

"McHALE DYED FOR MY PACK"

Printed on self-adhesive Cuben, of course.