Romney and Santorum on trees
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John Nausieda
(Meander) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Romney and Santorum on trees on 03/09/2012 09:20:19 MST Print View

Not a great way to start the day or the election open season.
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/08/the-trees-are-all-right/?src=me&ref=general

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Romney and Santorum on trees on 03/09/2012 09:34:37 MST Print View

Many of us are unhappy with Obama and his seemingly dysfunctional administration. How sad that all the Republicans can offer the nation is yet another tired batch of arrogant, ignorant, self righteous, pandering and reactionary candidates!

j lan
(justaddfuel) - F

Locale: MN
Re: Re: Romney and Santorum on trees on 03/09/2012 10:55:20 MST Print View

Utah Phillips had it right:

Mark Twain said, “Those of you who are inclined to worry have the widest selection in history”… Why complain, try to do something about it… You know, it’s going on nine months now since I decided that I was going to declare that I am a candidate for the presidency of the United States… Oh yes, I’m going to run…

Shopped around for a party… Well, I looked at the Republicans… Decided that talking to a conservative is like talking to your refrigerator… You know, the light goes on, the light goes off; it’s not going to do anything that isn’t built into it… And I’m not going to talk to a conservative anymore than I talk to my dam refrigerator… Working for the Democratic Party now that’s kind of like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic…

So I created my own party… It’s called the Sloth and Indolence Party… And I’m running as an anarchist candidate in the best sense of that word… I’ve studied the presidency carefully… I have seen that our best presidents were the do-nothing presidents… Millard Fillmore, Warren G. Harding… When you have a president who does things, we are all in serious trouble… If he does anything at all, if he gets up at night to go the bathroom, somehow, mystically, trouble will ensue… I guarantee, that if I am elected, I will take over the White House, hang out, shoot pool, scratch my ass, and not do a dam thing… Which is to say, if you want something done, don’t come to me to do it for you; you got to get together and figure out how to do it yourselves… Is that a deal?

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Romney and Santorum on trees on 03/09/2012 10:58:59 MST Print View

I don't think it's that simple...

Carter was a "did nothing" president (by result if not by intention). And yet, I believe most of us preferred Reagan.

Edited by ben2world on 03/09/2012 10:59:38 MST.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Romney and Santorum on trees on 03/09/2012 11:20:27 MST Print View

"And yet, I believe most of us preferred Reagan."

You must be waving a red flag trying to get someone to protest this : )


"Many of us are unhappy with Obama and his seemingly dysfunctional administration."

I'm unhappy because he has the same financial advisors as Bush.

Obama has compromised way more than the Rs, whose #1 priority is to defeat Obama and have fillibustered almost everything. I think you have to give them more credit for dysfunction than Obama.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Re: Re: Romney and Santorum on trees on 03/09/2012 11:28:21 MST Print View

Jerry:

That I agree. The GOP will NOT have my vote this year, no matter what. Obstruction for the sake of obstruction should not be rewarded.

As for Reagan -- good, bad, or indifferent -- he had enjoyed popularity ratings that Obama could only dream about.

d k
(dkramalc) - MLife
Re: Re: Romney and Santorum on trees on 03/09/2012 11:30:46 MST Print View

OK, I'll bite. :) Prefer Ronald "a tree is a tree, how many more do you need to look at?" Reagan to Carter? No, count me out, thanks.

And yes, he (RR) did lots...Who increased the debt

Edited by dkramalc on 03/09/2012 11:32:51 MST.

j lan
(justaddfuel) - F

Locale: MN
Re: Re: Re: Re: Romney and Santorum on trees on 03/09/2012 11:33:12 MST Print View

Reagan was an actor, of course people loved him.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Romney and Santorum on trees on 03/09/2012 11:39:24 MST Print View

"Reagan was an actor, of course people loved him."

But so was Nancy. :)

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: Re: Re: Romney and Santorum on trees on 03/09/2012 11:59:06 MST Print View

"he had enjoyed popularity ratings that Obama could only dream about."

Ah, how history fades and such over time.

For a broad comparison, Gallup polls:

In order, highest approval rating, lowest, highest disapproval, and average (though Obama's, of course, isn't yet finished).

Obama 69, 38, 55, 49
Reagan 68, 35, 56, 52.8

So, so far, Obama has had a higher highest, not yet as low a low, not quite as high a disapproval, and a close average. Not sure what he'd be dreaming about.

Edited by idester on 03/09/2012 11:59:46 MST.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Romney and Santorum on trees on 03/09/2012 12:03:56 MST Print View

Doug:

Reagan has one BIG advantage over Obama. Late presidents almost always get a boost. Nixon is probably the only exception that I can think of... and even he seems to be 'enjoying' a bit of a popularity recovery...

Edited by ben2world on 03/09/2012 12:04:49 MST.

Keith Bassett
(keith_bassett)

Locale: Pacific NW
Popularity Ratings on 03/09/2012 12:04:37 MST Print View

Nice numbers on the Popularity ratings. It puts it into perspective.

Reagan has been raised to godhood after his time in office. During it, he was just another president.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Popularity Ratings on 03/09/2012 12:10:23 MST Print View

@ Doug, Keith, et. al.

Although many historians would argue that assessments are best after the tests of time -- and emotions settled.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: Popularity Ratings on 03/09/2012 12:24:26 MST Print View

"Although many historians would argue that assessments are best after the tests of time -- and emotions settled."

How much time? Reagan left office in 88, right? "By the summer of 1992, a USA Today/Gallup poll found that just 24 percent of Americans said their country was better off because of the Reagan years, with 40 percent saying it was worse off. Reagan’s own favorable rating had fallen to 46 percent — making him significantly less popular than Jimmy Carter, whose favorable score was at 63 percent at the time." [source: http://www.salon.com/2010/11/05/reagan_popularity/]

The article argues, and I tend to agree, that honest assessments are rarely made too long after a president's term. Folks like to forget the bad, and remember the 'good,' and that skews assessments quite a bit. It's an interesting read.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Re: Re: Popularity Ratings on 03/09/2012 12:27:04 MST Print View

Time - I would say at a minimum -- 2-3 generations. Why? Because as long as the old farts are still alive, things get viewed through the rosy tint of nostalgia. :)

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
Re: Re: Re: Romney and Santorum on trees on 03/09/2012 12:30:03 MST Print View

d.k,

That charts has been shown to be bogus.

Ben F
(tekhna) - F
Reagan as a democrat? on 03/09/2012 19:33:04 MST Print View

The simple fact is Reagan might have been too liberal for the current Democratic party, nevermind the Republican party. That is, the Reagan who granted amnesty to illegal immigrants, raised taxes multiple times, etc. Our country has swung SO far to the right that even the policies of an ideologue like Reagan seem liberal today in comparison. Nixon too, for that matter--the Nixon of the EPA, the Nixon who proposed a national guaranteed minimum income. Not minimum wage, income.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Re: Re: Popularity Ratings on 03/09/2012 19:46:08 MST Print View

"Because as long as the old farts are still alive, things get viewed through the rosy tint of nostalgia. :)"

I'm not sure where you are headed with this. I feel that things have been going OK ever since Cleveland, that is, Grover Cleveland. He was quite a guy.

--B.G.--

John Nausieda
(Meander) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Re: Re: Romney and Santorum on trees on 03/09/2012 20:00:25 MST Print View

This is all well and good but Ben hijacked the thread. The two leading nominees seem to think that the National Parks should be sold to Great America or the Koch Brothers. A shift like that will take a heavy toll on country that cannot be replaced. I view this as warily as Arctic Oil drilling and fracking. And for the record I thought Reagan was far more dangerous than Nixon.Nixon always sweating and selling the plain clothe coat. And cursing was his most important product. Look at who he hired for Watergate. He was as out there as Barry Goldwater or Ken Kesey. For Reagan The Schmoozing was so seductive.Lawrence Welk Forever. So Californian. Property tax reform. Air traffic Controllers replaceable. You and I are living in this cut rate airline world and the inflight movie " A Day without a Mexican" has been cancelled by John McCain's new video . "Attack anything and hang it on the Obama"

Edited by Meander on 03/09/2012 20:07:00 MST.

David Lutz
(davidlutz)

Locale: Bay Area
"Romney and Santorum on trees" on 03/09/2012 20:15:27 MST Print View

Ah, yes. The Op Ed page of the New York Times. They don't have an axe to grind, do they?

Romney says he doesn't know why the federal government owns 80% of the land in Nevada or for what purpose and next thing you know he wants to sell Yosemite.