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J W
(jhaura) - M

Locale: www.Trailability.com
Comparison Matrix - 20 Degree Down Bags/Quilts on 03/06/2012 12:33:54 MST Print View

Here's a little graphic from a spreadsheet I've been working on. If you are looking for a 20 degree down bag or quilt it may help you.

From looking around, I would say that in a regular size with regular taper and a true footbox, you should have 12-12.4oz down fill, a 2.25-2.5" baffle height and 2.75" single layer loft. I'm a cold sleeper, and haven't found anything less than 12.4oz fill will keep me warm in temps around 20 degrees when using a 1/4" thick full length closed cell pad. YMMV.

You can see the full size image here:
http://i41.tinypic.com/ekpxn6.png



Jhaura
SuperUltralightBackpacking.com

Chris S
(csteutterman) - F

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Comparison Matrix - 20 Degree Down Bags/Quilts on 03/06/2012 12:52:32 MST Print View

Thanks for putting that together. Very timely as I'm in the market for one of these. Do you know how the GoLite UL 3 Season Quilt compares? Not much info that I can find on the website. The technical specs list the 20* rating, but that's it. I'm very tempted by the Katabatic (either Alsek or Palisade w/ 3 oz. Overfill), but at about half the price the GoLite seems like a better choice.

Randy Martin
(randalmartin) - F

Locale: Colorado
Re: Re: Comparison Matrix - 20 Degree Down Bags/Quilts on 03/06/2012 13:08:58 MST Print View

"but at about half the price the GoLite seems like a better choice". Probably is from a price standpoint, however, as a customer I can tell you that the Katabatic quilts are true to their temperature rating. I would be skeptical of any bag that doesn't publish their fill weight. In addition, there are a number of other things you need to consider in the quilt design

1] The differential cut of the outer and inner lining mean that the Katabatic quilt will hold it's shape (naturally curve around your body).
2] Clip system is ingenious and results in much less loss of heat by keeping the quilt on top of your pad not around it or off of it. It's really good for side sleepers and movers to ensure your quilt stays around you and not shifting off in the middle of the night.
3] Pertex shell is very breathable. I experienced this first hand last September during a rainy hike. Went to bed damp, awoke fully dried out.
4] Made in the USA.

I understand those features may not be worth the $180+ difference in price, though it's the fill weight that I really take a look at if you can get GoLite to give that to you.

Chris S
(csteutterman) - F

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Comparison Matrix - 20 Degree Down Bags/Quilts on 03/07/2012 14:04:27 MST Print View

Yeah, I think "choice" might have been the wrong term. Better "value" is probably more appropriate. That $180+ price difference is pretty hard to swallow, but I think I convinced myself to go for the better quilt over the better value.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Comparison Matrix - 20 Degree Down Bags/Quilts on 03/07/2012 14:31:22 MST Print View

I have used my Golite 3 Season quilt down to 22F with a Synmat UL7 and mid weight baselayers (top and bottom). No socks. And was very toasty. The quilt was improved over previous iterations with a noticeable increase in down and hence loft. The waterproof footbox and strip at the top is a worthwhile addition.

The quality is excellent and it has proven to be extremely durable.

It is a bit heavier than some of the other options, but part of that is the girth @ 58". Many of the others that have been listed are substantially narrower.

For the price, it can't be beat, especially because it is also a top performer. The others are not 'better' quilts.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Comparison Matrix - 20 Degree Down Bags/Quilts on 03/07/2012 14:35:19 MST Print View

" I would be skeptical of any bag that doesn't publish their fill weight. "

Fill weight as per my hang tag:

Golite 3 Season Quilt - Long: 13.5 oz of down.

The Regular has 12 oz.

Hobbes W
(Hobbesatronic) - F

Locale: SoCal
Re: Comparison Matrix - 20 Degree Down Bags/Quilts on 03/07/2012 14:42:13 MST Print View

Without knowing the respective down 'fill power' (FP) of each option, I don't see how you're really able to compare apples to apples in terms of loft & weight.

Here's some really fundamental math that makes the exercise pretty straightforward:

1. standard 80" x 50" quilt = 4,000 sq inches
2. multiply by 2" loft (ie avg target for 30- degree quilt) to get 8,000 cubic inches. (Btw, 2" is also the baffle height.)
3. divide by 900 FP yields 8.90z of down
4. multiply by 1.35 (ie 35% overstuff) gets you 2.7" of loft (avg target for 20- degree quilt) and another 3.1oz of down, for a total of 12oz of 900 FP down.

So, for around 12oz of 900 FP down, you can get a quilt that has a loft in excess of 2.5" that should be good enough for temps to 20 degrees. If you use M50 (actually, .7 oz per sq yrd coated [9 sq ft] or .078 oz sq ft * 55.5 sq ft [8,000 sq in/144]), then your total fabric weight should be in the range of 4-5oz.

With 12oz of 900 FP down and 5oz of M50 and 1oz of nano-seeum, you can have yourself a nice quilt in the 20-30 degree range that weighs around 18oz. Problem is, about the only way to pull this off is MYOG, and there's only one real supplier who provides a turn-key package, but it's only $170.

Learn.To.Sew.

Edited by Hobbesatronic on 03/07/2012 15:07:25 MST.

J W
(jhaura) - M

Locale: www.Trailability.com
Re: Comparison Matrix - 20 Degree Down Bags/Quilts on 03/07/2012 14:55:31 MST Print View

Hobbes, thank you for the detailed MYOG specs. Good stuff.

All the bags in this matrix are 875-900, except enlightened which is 850. That's as close to Apples to Apples any one needs for a ready made bag. No big diff there.

The specs you list are not avail commercially, and this is a commercial comparison for people not doing their own MYOG bag.

I've added the FP to my chart though for clarity. Thanks for that.

Hobbes W
(Hobbesatronic) - F

Locale: SoCal
Re: Re: Comparison Matrix - 20 Degree Down Bags/Quilts on 03/07/2012 15:05:53 MST Print View

"this is a commercial comparison for people not doing their own MYOG bag"

I know, I know, I'm on my MYOG jihad. LOL. Seriously though, for about $5-10 in cheap materials and a $100 sewing machine, anyone can mow through enough practice seams in order to learn how to build an actual kit.

Besides the obvious $ savings, there is simply no way a commercial product can deliver the same performance/weight ratio. For one, even the cottage guys have to slightly overbuild so they don't have irate customers wrecking their well deserved reputations.

For two, they have to make a profit, so they have to find the best price for the most commonly available materials. That means, typically 20d and 800-850FP. There seems to be only guy who has both 10d (M50) & 900FP, and he won't discount that much to the cottage guys.

So throw their labor on top of semi-fixed material costs, and you can see where the price curve either ramps up or they shift to slightly less exotic materials. That's why MYOG is truly the golden ticket if you want the shiznick.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Re: Comparison Matrix - 20 Degree Down Bags/Quilts on 03/07/2012 15:27:44 MST Print View

"I know, I know, I'm on my MYOG jihad."

Aside from the personal satisfaction factor, have you included your time to learn how to sew, time to locate and obtain the materials, and time to construct it? How much money is your time worth? And could you use the time making equipment for other endeavors such as planning your next trip and even hiking more often?

Just saying MYOG is not for everyone and for some folks the time can be more productive if placed somewhere else.

HYOH :)

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: Re: Re: Comparison Matrix - 20 Degree Down Bags/Quilts on 03/07/2012 15:33:43 MST Print View

Get the Revelation X and lower that price to about $200.

Chris S
(csteutterman) - F

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Comparison Matrix - 20 Degree Down Bags/Quilts on 03/07/2012 15:42:27 MST Print View

"Get the Revelation X and lower that price to about $200."

I've been considering that as well, but the "Please allow 4-6 weeks for us to sew your quilt" part is the main problem for me. I need it sooner so I can look at it and maybe use it once or twice over the next 4 to 6 weeks :)

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: Comparison Matrix - 20 Degree Down Bags/Quilts on 03/07/2012 15:46:10 MST Print View

Yeah, wait times can be hard.




...coming from a guy who just got his Rev X in the mail two days ago! :)

Stephan Doyle
(StephanCal)
Re: Re: Comparison Matrix - 20 Degree Down Bags/Quilts on 03/07/2012 15:47:26 MST Print View

Chris,

Some cottage folks are willing to bump up orders. Might be worth a try with Tim.

My Revelation X is a well-made quilt. The shell material isn't as luxurious as some, but it's UL, well-made, and has a good feature set.

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: Re: Comparison Matrix - 20 Degree Down Bags/Quilts on 03/07/2012 15:54:12 MST Print View

>My Revelation X is a well-made quilt. The shell material isn't as luxurious as some, but it's UL, well-made, and has a good feature set.

yup.

Chris S
(csteutterman) - F

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Comparison Matrix - 20 Degree Down Bags/Quilts on 03/09/2012 11:21:10 MST Print View

FWIW, I asked about the specs on the GoLite Quilt and this was the reply:

The fill weight on the Ultra Light 3 season Long is 375g. Size in the included stuff sack is 12"X6". Shoulder Girth: 60" Hip Girth: 47" Foot Girth: 39." The loft based on a sample regular is approximately 3.5" (one side).

James Landro
(justaddfuel) - F - M

Locale: MN
Re: Re: Comparison Matrix - 20 Degree Down Bags/Quilts on 03/09/2012 11:41:29 MST Print View

Wow, so the golite has more fill than any in the matrix? That's crazy, they must have taken the criticism of their old quilt very seriously.

Edited by justaddfuel on 03/09/2012 11:42:28 MST.

J W
(jhaura) - M

Locale: www.Trailability.com
Re: Re: Comparison Matrix - 20 Degree Down Bags/Quilts on 03/09/2012 11:45:56 MST Print View

Re: Golite Quilt

If we could get specs + fill power rating for a size Regular, I'd could add it to the matrix. Can't call myself today...

Chris S
(csteutterman) - F

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Comparison Matrix - 20 Degree Down Bags/Quilts on 03/09/2012 11:46:58 MST Print View

Not exactly apples to apples though since I asked about the Long version and the matrix lists the regular size.

Chris S
(csteutterman) - F

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Comparison Matrix - 20 Degree Down Bags/Quilts on 03/09/2012 11:48:52 MST Print View

I just replied to their email to ask about the size Regular. I'll let you know what they say.