What clothing layers do you use for 10 -25 degree winter weather? I've concentrated so much on 3 season hiking and the majority of the forum talk is geared toward 3 season and not the 4th season. I need to know what everyone wears while active and static.
Thanks!
John

John,
Active: LW merino base layer, wool toe and insulation socks, fleece200 top(or Montbell thermawrap), REI Summit pants, DIAD jacket, wool watch cap.
Tested down to 25'F

Stationary: replace fleece or thermawrap jacket with Montbell Light Alpine down jacket and put on 3/4 zip Montbell thermawrap pants.
Tested down to about 20'F

Gloves are wool or silk liners, fleece insulation, and Montbell drytec shells.
Only my shell has a hood, so my watch cap can be used with any layer at 1x the weight.

If I needed a few more degrees Id put my goretex pants over the montbell thermawrap and my DIAD over the down jacket.

I carry backup gloves and a neck gaiter.
Shoes are Inov-8 330s (light pack) or Montrail Torre GTX (heavy pack/snow).

It took a lot of bad purchases and wasted money to get to this simple system.

What about your system?

Edited by Brett1234 on 01/31/2007 10:32:41 MST.

REI Winter hat.

Silk weight top, microfleece shirt, shell jacket.

Mid weight bottom, shell pants.

Liner socks, neoprene sock, trail runner shoes.

Fleece convertible glove/mitten.

At breaks I add a MontBell down sweater.

Carried in the pack:

Extra pair of gloves,
Shell mittens, and
Extra pair of socks.

Same basic system as Brett.

I'm still trying to dial in my winter layers so I'm happy you asked the question. I can't wait to see the responses. This past weekend (0- 22 °F) of walks and nordic skiing I was wearing the following:

Top from inside out:
Ibex Hooded Shak
Ibex Tioga Hoody
Patagonia Houdini Wind Shirt
Montbell Thermawrap Vest
Seirus Soft Shell Gloves

Bottom from inside out:
Ibex Breezer Briefs
Smartwool Bottom Lightweight
Smartwool Ultralight Ski Socks
TNF Paramount Convertible Pants
Montrail Torre GTX Boots

Edited by ericnoble on 01/31/2007 10:22:56 MST.

>What clothing layers do you use for 10 -25 degree winter weather?


*Active*
Wal-Mart Athletic Works wicking tee (like Underarmor) (XL: 4.8 oz)
Patagonia Capilene expedition-weight long-sleeve zip (XL: 10.8 oz)
    -or-
Patagonia R.5 long-sleeve zip-T (XL: 11.4 oz)
Montane Aero windshirt (XXL: 3.2 oz)

Patagonia Capilene lightweight briefs (L: 1.8 oz)
    -and-
Duofold long underwear (L: 5.4 oz)
    -and-
Lands End convertible hiking pants (L: 13.2 oz)
        -or- (on snow)
Patagonia Capilene lightweight boxer-briefs (L: 3.0 oz)
    -and-
Gore-Tex 3-layer full-zip ski pants (L: 20.6 oz)

Mountain Hardwear Polartec fleece watchcap (L: 1.0 oz)
Buff original neck gaiter (1.0 oz)
old polypro balaclava (L: 1.2 oz)
    --or-- (strong wind)
OR Gorilla Moonlite Pile Balaclava (M: 3.9 oz with nose cover)


*Static*
    replace Montane Aero with
Patagonia Micropuff pull-over (XL: 13.2 oz)

    add
BMW Cocoon pants (XL: 8.2 oz)

    add
Ray-Way Bomber Hat (L: 1.0 oz)

Edited by Otter on 01/31/2007 10:59:29 MST.

Active:

baselayer-Patagonia Wool 2 zip long sleeve
insulation-Patagonia R1 fleece
wind protection-Patagonia Houdini windshirt (if needed)
headwear-Arcteryx Wool cap or Patagonia R1 balaclava
handwear-Gordini Lavawool gloves over Patagonia LW Capilene
glove liners
underwear-Duofold polyester briefs
baselayer (legs)- Patagonia MW Capilene pants
leg protection-Patagonia polyester pants (quite old, don't
know model) or The North Face Paramount pants over
Patagonia MW Capilene pants
socks-Smartwool hiker socks

Resting:

I would add a Patagonia Micropuff pullover and perhaps swap the R1 fleece with a R2 fleece. If it got really cold I would add my Feathered Friends Volant jacket.

Edited by gungadin on 01/31/2007 11:09:05 MST.

If your temps 10-25F include windchill, then:

**Active:

Cloudveil Six Shadows Beanie
Rab Vapour Rise Jacket [hood down, top of zipper open]
Featherweight PowerDry LS-Tee w/ Zip (or nothing, or ss tech-tee)
Marmot ATV Pants (original model made with Dryskin)
Ex Officio Boxer/Briefs
Mountain Hardware Tempest Gloves
Mid-Weight Wool Socks or SealSkinZ
Inov-8 310 Flyroc

**Standing Around During Break:

Rab hood goes up and zipper closed
PolarBuff Neck Gaitor (if needed)
Montbell Thermawrap Vest (layer over Rab if needed)


**"Really" Static

e.g. end of the day, have been inactive for a couple of hours, sun has gone down, getting ready to sleep:

Start with "Break" additions and make the following changes as needed:

Golite Snow Cap (layered over Six Shadows Hat)
Montbell Thermawrap Jacket (layer over everything)
Primaloft Overmitts (typically replace Tempest Gloves)
Switch from shoes and wool socks to VB socks & primaloft booties
Mid-weight Capiline Tight under my ATV pants.

**Variation

In the past I used a Patagonia R.5 heavy base + either a Patagonia Dragonfly Windshirt or Essenshell Pullover rather than the Rab Vapour-Rise Jacket. Both systems work, but I had found that making adjustments as the conditions vary is a bit easier with the Rab.

If I took a lot more extended trips in these conditions I would get a pair of High Loft Insulated Overpants and not use the tights. But while it's a pain take put on and take off the tights, they get the job done and I am avoiding spending $100+ on the overpants.

If the 10-25F doesn't include wind chill, then active would be likely to be the same as my standing around list + some liners for my gloves. The Six Shadows Hat would be replace with a windproof Backlava and maybe googles.

Edited by verber on 01/31/2007 15:49:09 MST.

nice lists...somewhere along the waypath I became a big fan of salopettes over my base layer in these temps. Farmer John style bibs, mine are sugoi, must be stretch powershield
fabric.

Just got back from work! I love your replies.

I also have been X/C Skiing and doing the 3-5 mile walk thing after work. It's been chilly in Michigan lately. 10 - 25 degreew F. I have been wearing the following:

Pantagonia Capilene Crew Midweight Base 8 oz.
Montbell U.L. Thermawrap Parka 12.7 oz.
(this is too good) and the Montbell replaced the fleece which doesn't even come close to the insulation factor and weighs 6 oz. less. But we already know that.

Patagonia Underwear 3.0 oz.
Patagonia Capilene Midweight Base 8.0 oz.
REI Sahara Convertible Pants 14.0 oz.

REI Merino Wool Hiking Socks (MED. WT.) 3.0 oz.
Vasque Velocity GTS XCR Trail Runners 29.0 oz.

This is absolutely warm. I forgot the Mountain Hardwear gloves at 1.5 oz. I bring a REI Winter Watch Cap @ 1.5 Oz. but use the Parka hood on the Montbell for very cold, windchill and blowing snow.

I'm looking for suggestions.

Thanks fro the replies.
John

My main concern is having full-length, completely separating zips on the pants, so over silk-weight Capilene long pants I wear: Marmot DriClime (not PreCip) windpants, then when not moving I add Patagonia Micro Puff zip pants. The zipped pants can be whipped on or off while snowshoeing or skiing depending on the changing conditions and rate of exercise.

Active:
LW synthetic t-shirt
Pat. R-1 Pullover
Golite Momentum Jkt (very LW Powershield Softshell)
Powerstretch Tights
Wool Hat, glove liners, boots, gaiters

Static:
Toss on the old Marmot Down Sweater

In the Pack: LW Gortex parka & pants, insulated/gortex gloves, and PS balacava.

I'm pretty warm blooded, so when I'm moving, I don't need too much in the way of layers
Active:
patagonia lightweight stretch zip t-neck
patagonia boxer briefs
patagonia lightweight capilene tights
ems stretch woven pants (scholler dryskin)
north face stretch woven jacket
smartwool mountaineering socks
Asolo cliffs leather boots
o.r. crocodiles (out here inthe cascades we're usually playing in deep snow)
patagonia lightweight ski hat
cloudveil strechwoven gloves or black diamond glissade gloves.
fleece neck gaiter

In my pack I have a patagonia das parka, a fleece balaclava, and a pair of primaloft mittens.
If it is going to be really cold, I'll wear a lightweight capilene t-shirt under the zip t and throw an expedition weight capilene zip t in my pack as a just-in-caser.
I've been thinking about getting a polartec saolpette to replace my lower layers with, and take the place of the extra t-shirt (and prevent snow from going dowm the back of my pants)

Since I live in SoCal, we rarely experience true Winter weather. However, two weeks ago I was out for a weekend and it got down to 22 both nights at 3,500'in the San Gabriels. Exceptional for us. I sat out for almost 4 hours at night wearing the following:
Very Static:
Ibex Woolies top and bottom
Merino Wool socks
Sierra Design Down Mutts (down booties)
WM Flight Jacket
Montbell UL down Pants
Patagonia Dragonfly jacket
Possum fur watch cap
REI windpro polartec gloves

I sat in my chair converter using my Exped Downmat 7 in it and read until retiring at 10pm. I was completely warm and very comfortable except that my fingertips occassionally got cold which I remedied by sticking them in the handwarmer pockets of the Flight Jacket.

Head - Wool watch cap

Hands - thinsulated neoprene gloves

Torso - merino thermals, light down vest (active) or filson worsted wool liner jacket (resting), 3 layer gore-tex parka with cobra hood + ski mask.

Legs - merino thermals, 3 layer gore=tex pants.

Footwear - teko wool socks, limmer boots, gaiters.

If it gets much colder than 15 below I'll ADD silk liner socks, a base layer of silk thermals, down booties for camp and wool over mitts.

It dropped into the high twenties last night and I checked out what the night shift was wearing; a base layer of thirty different kinds of cotton, folowed by the ultimate waterproof breathable, carhart canvas coveralls, molded plastic haedhat without liner and synthetic leather gloves [nubuck]. I'm going to give it a couple of more weeks and start selling surplus wool stuff out of the back of my truck.

Don't forget the balaclava. An ultralight balaclava makes a very flexible piece of gear incl hat, hood, headband/earband, neck gaiter, facemask, dustmask. What's more, they don't fall off in your sleep so you can have your face covered, but not be breathing into your bag. It should be able to cover your nose, loose enuf that it doesn't crush your nose overnight. Fogging can be an issue, but if you are using it, probably there's a breeze to help out. Mine is a very plain stretch microfleece, "crusader cut". Like this shape: http://www.rei.com/product/725709
Here it is over an REI microfiber sun hat, with a hoody windshirt:


Don't forget the goggles if you expect wind and/or snow. Also make great sunglasses. It completes facial cold protection with a mask or balaclava.

Edited by Paul_Tree on 10/08/2007 14:06:47 MDT.

Rab VR pants
Smartwool socks
sub zero active shorts
Paramo cambia long sleeve zip neck
Paramo Velez Smock
Buff as a neckerchief/lower face guard
Thinsulate peaked cap with ear flaps

I'm basically in the same boat as the OP was over 2 years ago, and I'm also new to the sport (been soaking up lots of info here!). I'm sure some new things have come out, but my criteria is also focused on being thrifty (need to teach our Scouts) and flexibility (we don't get much snow here, but it'd be nice if whatever I get can handle the wetness also when we do get it). At this time I'm only focused on the bottom half.

Right now for the top half, I figured I'd use my 3 season base layer (Champion lightweight L/S polyester shirt), I recently got L/S Cap 3 and Cap 4 shirts to try out as the next layer and then I have some kind of Columbia Sportwear nylon/polyester jacket (21 oz I think) for when I stop/sleep.

For bottom half I use a pair of polyester workout pants for 3 season at the moment. I don't think they'd work well as a winter base layer (too loose to put something over). Somewhere I have a pair of lightweight stretch pants (not sure what fabrics are used, but not cotton). They MAY suffice for a base layer if I can find them. If not, it seems some snug-fitting polyester pants (eg, Cap 1 or 2?) would be best. What should be next that isn't $$$?

FWIW, my bag is an REI Sub Kilo (20 F), and I'll either be using a Lunar Duo or homemade floorless tent.

Now is the time to embrace your neighborhood thrift store. Look for wool dress pants in various weights. Use a nylon shell over that like warmup pants. I stuck my head in our local one and found 11 pairs in a fairly heavy weight.
A light wool sweater [shetland or merino not cashmere, which isn't wool]can be had for five bucks, but 2 thin ones and layer them. A windbreaker over that helps. It's also ski swap season, go for gloves and hats, surplus stores for wool liners,watch caps, and balaclavas. I have a wool scarf [in lovely olive drab]that I suprisingly really use a lot.
There is a lot of stuff online;
Land's End has a 700 fill down jacket or a down parka for 100 bucks, winter boots in 600 gram insulation. Sierra Trading Post has 44 different down products and 117 wool sweaters. Campmor always has something blown out in their hot deals. Steep and Cheap is another place to score top name stuff.
Search these forums, learn about VBL, when fleece works, when it doesn't, how to stay dry, keep from overheating,get outside when it turns nasty near home, take notes about what worked,what needs improving.
Why did your feet get cold; convection, wet, o lack of insulation? Was your head covered?
The motto above my grandfather's door was many are cold/ few are frozen.
Good Luck, keep asking questions.

Edited by pyeyo on 09/23/2009 21:31:05 MDT.