"Or maybe submerge it under water."

I tried that one time thirty years ago. I had carried in a 12-pack of beer plus a wine-in-a-box in order to surprise some friends of mine who were southbound on the JMT. When I got to the intercept location, I was several hours early, so I tried to sink the booze bag (plastic bag with cans and box inside) in the river to keep it out of trouble. It is very hard to keep that sort of thing from floating.

About 24 hours later, I was carrying out the bag of empties.

--B.G.--

"Will never be approved, the learning curve is too steep."

Fergawdsake! WTF is to be learned? Cinch aperture tight; overhand knot to secure aperture; wrap rope around tree; tie rewoven figure 8; secure with overhand knots or half fishermans knots. I am mystified by the confusion.

@Tom: Think about how many people there are who only hike a few days a year. They generally will not be able to do things the proper way, so by making things simple, like a bear can, you reduce bear/human incidents.

One thing that made me laugh so much, it was either in this discussion or in the other one about Ursacks, but someone said something to the effect of "Its not just the weight of the can, it means I have to buy a whole new pack to fit it in." Who told you to buy a pack so small that it leaves no room for any unforseeable items such as a bear can? Thats your fault for being a UL crackhead.

Classic story Bob, I love it. Nice to hear a funny chime amongst others telling me how to camp. I wonder how many Coors Lights I can fit in my Ursack?

http://www.ursack.com/ursack-use-and-care-instruction.htm

http://www.ursack.com/propper-hang.htm

I just want people to use it properly and not ruin it for the rest of us. None of this my way is better krap, follow instructions.

Edited by kthompson on 03/02/2012 18:57:22 MST.

Next time i use the ursack i will counter balance the log with another on a thick branch with the 10/10 method.

May I add that I have always used the Ursack as instructed per instructions. There are plenty of places in the Sierras that allow counter balance, and I couple this with the Ursack for added safety for the bear. I also check in at the ranger station and follow regulations 100% prior to every adventure.

Edited by KalebC on 03/02/2012 19:24:49 MST.

"I wonder how many Coors Lights I can fit in my Ursack?"

Depends on whether they're empty or full. One thing about bringing Coors Light: You won't have to worry about the bears getting into your Ursack. ;=)

"There are plenty of places in the Sierras that allow counter balance, and I couple this with the Ursack for added safety for the bear."

sigh...

"May I add that I have always used the Ursack as instructed per instructions."

Could you perhaps provide us with a link to the instructions that tell you to do a counter balance hang with an Ursack?

http://www.ursack.com/ursack-use-and-care-instruction.htm

http://www.ursack.com/propper-hang.htm

I just want people to use it properly and not ruin it for the rest of us. None of this my way is better krap, follow instructions.

"Fergawdsake! WTF is to be learned? Cinch aperture tight; overhand knot to secure aperture; wrap rope around tree; tie rewoven figure 8; secure with overhand knots or half fishermans knots."

What's to be learned? Three different knots. And a certain percentage of backpackers are unfortunately going to find that too complicated. They WILL mis-tie the Ursack, and consequently some bears ARE going to get food rewards.

Contrast that with the Garcia can. It's virtually impossible to fail to fit the lid on properly. About the only way a person can fail with a bear can is if he/she also hangs it inside a stuff sack in the mistaken belief that that will add additional security, as a fall from a height might split the can open. The can's not completely idiot-proof, but it comes a lot closer to being so than the UrSack.

Can I get a t-shirt that says "Ultralight Crackhead" on it?

"One thing that made me laugh so much, it was either in this discussion or in the other one about Ursacks, but someone said something to the effect of "Its not just the weight of the can, it means I have to buy a whole new pack to fit it in." Who told you to buy a pack so small that it leaves no room for any unforseeable items such as a bear can? Thats your fault for being a UL crackhead."

It was in the prior thread, and I laughed, too. Particularly since it's been obvious for a while now that regulations requiring the use of bear canisters are going to become more prevalent. To me, it only makes sense to take that into account when purchasing a pack. If you can afford only one pack, make sure it's one that can hold a bear can as well as all your regular gear, or you may well be sorry.

The same person also complained that bear cans have worn holes in his pack. You mean gear wears out when you use it?! How shocking! I guess patching the holes or buying a new pack made out of slightly tougher fabric's not an option.

Folks, it's Not About Us. Really. The regulatory authorities aren't going to care that protecting bears is going to make life tougher for UL backpackers. Their focus is on what's best for the bears. We're the ones who are going to have to adapt. We might as well get used to it.

This whole debate is stupid.

If the Ursack is approved use it as per the directions if you want to.

If not use a canister if required.

The which is better arguement is stupid as we do not have sufficient information to make that judgement. So those tbat are in charge of protecting bears should develop a standard set of testing and monitor use in the field and base their decisions on that. Beyond that we just follow regulations.

"What's to be learned? Three different knots. And a certain percentage of backpackers are unfortunately going to find that too complicated. They WILL mis-tie the Ursack, and consequently some bears ARE going to get food rewards."

Those who find 3 simple knots to be an insurmountable challenge should definitely use the Garcia and pay the 1.5 pound plus weight penalty.

"About the only way a person can fail with a bear can is if he/she also hangs it inside a stuff sack in the mistaken belief that that will add additional security, as a fall from a height might split the can open."

By no means unlikely given some of the posts on this thread.


"The can's not completely idiot-proof, but it comes a lot closer to being so than the UrSack."

I'm at a loss for words. :=(

Can I get a t-shirt that says "Ultralight Crackhead" on it?

"Can I get a t-shirt that says "Ultralight Crackhead" on it?"

@Ben F: I already trademarked it.. shirts on sale for $125,000 and are just .4 nano ounces for a pack of three.

Hikin Jim you are funny, that's why I enjoy BPL. This thread was meant for opinion/hypothetical purposes and got too personal; and the different camps out there showed their opinions and I respect that. After all, there will always be persons that use no bear food protection at all so let's just respect each other that we're looking out for the bears. I use a bear can in Denali every time, there is no alternative period. I have had 25+ close bear encounters with no bears ever touching my food and I will keep it that way.

Edited by KalebC on 03/02/2012 23:10:17 MST.

Who does not use bear protection?? I will bring you their heads!!!!

The Ursack is neither intended to be hung or to be bear-proof (it is not).

IMO, these two factors combine to create its main failing.

You have to actively defend the Ursack. Expect interrupted sleeps if you're using it as described. It will hold off the bear for a while, but sustain some damage (which future bears will use to their advantage). If the bear is desperate, it may decide to defend its "find" from you, getting you into more trouble than you started with.

If you ignore it, the bear will either smash your food to bits, or possibly get a small reward through a bit/torn hole.


I've abandoned the whole bear-proof concept. I'm now PCT-hanging an Ursack Minor. Bears in my area (BC) are plentiful but not habituated enough to defeat a hang, but critters are everywhere and will get at a normal hang. The Minor helps with that.

Bear cans are a no-effort solution to both, seemingly win-win. But just too heavy and bulky to consider unless required, IMHO.

Edited by dasbin on 03/02/2012 23:39:11 MST.