That's eric just being eric. (;

File under "haters gonnna hate."

"File under "haters gonnna hate."

May as well add The North Face to the file too -- for similar reason. And I think Mountain Hardwear and Arcteryx are both getting precariously close to being "hated" as well. Sigh...

I dont work for mec

I sometimes wish i did for the discounts

IMO any decent brand has pretty good functional "quality" ... You dont need to pay very much for something that lasts long enough for yr uses ... What sets companies apart IMO is how they take care of you after ... With mec/eb/rei you just bring it in and theyll swap it out ... And at lower price points than many other "name brands" ... At a certain point if you use things enough they become consummables

Remember that the less money you spend on gear, the more money you have to go out an have fun ...

Thread drift apologies upfront...

I kind of see MEC as similar to REI -- upper middle range quality at middle range price level -- in other words, good value with great product guarantee to boot. But both mostly target 'mainstream' hikers and campers. Sure, even a UL hiker can find things to buy over there -- but for truly UL options, one should focus more on the boutique gear makers that specialize in UL gear.

What does patagucci carry for ul that mec doesnt carry something equivalent .... Just curious

They have windshirts, r1 copies, id sil tarps, blizzard bags, ul daypacks, light down 800 fill jackets, synth pulllovers with pl1, etc...

Its not like pata, dead bird or any other big manuf is ul focused anyways

Eric -- I didn't realize we are now in a debate between MEC and Patagonia? But if your 'curiosity' is directed at me, then read the last line in my post immediately above. Did I mention Patagonia at all?

I have several Pantagonia items. Great company and great products. I don't care if the yuppies wear it or if it cost a bundle. What matters is the relative value, not the price.

My bias is not soley based on price, but identity. It's not "insert name here" that I personally hate on - it's the fact that I cannot identify with the people that are now wearing it. Present company excluded.

Am I the only one?

Edited by deadmansflats on 03/01/2012 22:08:13 MST.

Present company excluded.

Am I the only one?

Apparently not.

When I am in the market for a piece of gear, I think “will it perform”, “will it last”, “what does it cost”, “can I return it for repair”. I never think- “can I identify with the persons that wear this product”, or “what will people think of me if I wear it”.

You've nailed it. REI actually conducted a nationwide market survey. As a result, they will be, even more aggressively, pursuing what they call "lifestyle" customers. Look forward to more of that direction from a few other big brands as a result, I've already seen the ripple....

>You've nailed it. REI actually conducted a nationwide market survey. As a result, they will be, even more aggressively, pursuing what they call "lifestyle" customers. Look forward to more of that direction from a few other big brands as a result, I've already seen the ripple....


At the end of every day, any institution with a commercial interest is focused on one thing: profit. Companies will inevitably go where the market is strongest because it drives a bigger profit.

I've also noticed that the apparel section in several outdoors shops has grown over the last several years, while actual "gear" shelves are shrinking. Clothing can drive a higher profit at least in part because people NEED clothing whether they are going to use it in the outdoors or not. Nobody NEEDS a tent.

the frustration for me being that they tried too hard to change
for the sake of their competitors. i felt as if compromised the integrity of their core customers in the doing so.
change is good at times, yes, when it's timely, measured and warranted.
it's as if they "over-engineered" (for lack of a better phrase)
many of their garments
(no harm in the way of technicals shells and the like),
but street attire and such.
if it ain't broke...
yup, and to echo the fit dilemma...
i'm short and everything hangs on me like a shower curtain as is,
let alone, across the board they seemed to have lengthened their fit.
and the women's line became too flowery for my liking
i'm not going out to dinner, i'm out playing hard.
gimme real.
leave the flowers to the garden.
BUT i will still purchase their old gems on ebay.
bomber, indeed.

I love Patagonia. I think they make quality products and I've never had an issue with their customer service. They've always done right by me. I own probably two dozen of their pieces and add a handful each year. They're for yuppies? OK. Do they make quality products? I think so.

This argument reminds me a lot of my town. We are very resistant to "big business" and the city makes it difficult for big name restaurants or stores (ie Target) to come in. We like to support mom and pop shops. Great, I do too. Here's the problem - when you are a local restaurant and you don't know anything about doing steaks, you should let Ruth's Chris or Morton's (or whoever in).

I know a lot people here are more receptive to niche designers and producers, but I think some are so into "helping the little guy" or "Made in the USA" that they will over look the fact that the products look terrible, have bad QA, or just don't perform that well. And most of the time, the products from these niche producers COST MORE than Patagonia. How could you expect them to cost less? They don't have the benefits of scale.

Edited by sygyzy on 03/05/2012 11:21:00 MST.

well lets talk about "quality" for a sec ... it seems that for the $$$$ brands people always talk about "quality"

now i wont dispute that for some gear, you definitely want that "stamp of approval" (doesnt mean $$$$$) ,,, notably climbing gear or other such

but for a fleece? ... come on ... ive hade cheap department store fleeces last a decade of daily use and i still have em in usable condition

as to rain jackets ... you can read the review of mr skurkas book where rain jackets seem to fail no matter what ... and if anyone is testing gear it should be tested, he is ...

softshells and windshirts? ... i have a MH softshell that i got for 50$ that wears as well as any of the dead birds ive had ... windshirts? plenty of people here use that EB FA windshell for 50$ just fine ...

what exactly is this mythical "quality" were talking about here???

keep in mind that those who go out and do the most use all types of "brands" of gear ... some more reasonably priced, others $$$$ ones that they are sponsored by ... even EB FA has been to the antartica, used up everest, by guides ... cabelas likely sees more hard wear than much of the stuff used by BPLers here, they are used by hunters freezing for hours in poor conditions looking to kill tasty critters ...

almost all outdoor clothing by any decent "brand" is more or less the same ... and i found very little FUNCTIONAL quality difference between any of em

as to warranty and service ... NO ONE beats rei/mec/eb ... eb will take back a 20+ year old down jacket not questions asked

I only have a few Patagonia items. The 20 year old fleece is pilled. The 12 year old windshirt is slightly heavy. The new Houdini is expensive.

What they all share is perfect design. They fit me perfectly- sleeves don't ride up, no shoulder-top seams on the fleece. Hood on the Houdini is complex but works perfectly. Cuts are slim (on me) but not binding.

So I'll continue to buy Patagonia when I can get it for at least 40% off. I wanted a R1 Hoody. Even found them for 30% off in January- but that was still $105. Instead I bought a quite serviceable REI Airflyte Hoody for $40 on sale.

You may as well call this post “what’s so good about a BMW”. Of course you will get some haters that say that their Honda civic has lasted them for 20 years. It’s all a matter of opinion. When I was bushwhacking in Kenai Peninsula for miles and my Gore-Paclite Jacket came out unscathed and I was dry after 4 days of rain, my friends shell which was supposed to be waterproof and breathable absorbed and permitted water through it as well as got tore up. Now that is what I call a difference in quality, so to me quality and performance is more important than money. I have seen expensive gear fall apart, and I have seen cheap gear hold up, you really won't know unless you put it through extreme conditions.