Titanium JetBoil Sol -- CAUTION
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Jim Larkey
(jimlarkey) - MLife

Locale: NoCO
Jetboil 0.8 L Ti Pot Weights on 03/06/2012 06:42:08 MST Print View

Jetboil 0.8 L Ti Pot Weights:

Plastic HX protector cup on bottom 34g
Ti Cup w/o cozy 106g
Cozy 20g
Plastic lid 19 g

TOTAL all above weighed 178g

Edited by jimlarkey on 03/06/2012 06:44:57 MST.

Nigel Healy
(nigelhealy) - F

Locale: San Francisco bay area
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: get the aluminium one on 03/06/2012 08:11:02 MST Print View

I don't have any scales I'd class as accurate enough. I use them to find relative weights not absolutes. A later poster has offered weights.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: get the aluminium one on 03/06/2012 08:58:17 MST Print View

According to the State of the Market test of integrated canister stoves by BPL,

the Ti version is 2oz lighter fully packed up, and 1.7oz lighter when stripped. It is also slightly more fuel efficient (gas mileage) and has a slightly faster boil.

For some, the $30 is worth it. If I could drop almost 2oz from my shelter for $30 I would probably do it.

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: get the aluminium one on 03/06/2012 09:01:02 MST Print View

David, you don't need to spend $30 to shed 2 oz. off your shelter. You can do it for free!

zfsdb

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: get the aluminium one on 03/06/2012 09:08:19 MST Print View

Are those titanium? If not, I'm not interested.

Cheque please.

Jim W.
(jimqpublic) - MLife

Locale: So-Cal
Re: get the aluminium one on 03/06/2012 09:10:02 MST Print View

... "Ti version" ... "slightly more fuel efficient (gas mileage) and has a slightly faster boil."

Don't bet on it being significant- I would bet that if you tested a representative sample of a few dozen you would find the difference almost nonexistent. There is probably more unit-to-unit production variation in the stoves and heat exchangers than model-to-model difference in the heat transfer efficiency. (Al conducts better but Ti is thinner...)

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: get the aluminium one on 03/06/2012 09:16:14 MST Print View

"Don't bet on it being significant- I would bet that if you tested a representative sample of a few dozen you would find the difference almost nonexistent. There is probably more unit-to-unit production variation in the stoves and heat exchangers than model-to-model difference in the heat transfer efficiency. (Al conducts better but Ti is thinner...)"

Since I don't have them both to run my tests, I am going by the State of the Market review.

Have you asked Will about his testing methodology or are his results not valid?

Jim W.
(jimqpublic) - MLife

Locale: So-Cal
Re: Re: Re: get the aluminium one on 03/06/2012 12:36:24 MST Print View

I suppose I should have re-read his article before being so bold. Still, it is doubtful that he tested more than a few of each model. It is my understanding that the stove itself is the same, so the pot is the only difference.

Without doing my own tests on a whole stack of pots, I retract my allegation that they are probably equally efficient.

Back to the Fireball Discussion...
____________________________________________________________________
Mention of salt from a Bouillon Cube raising boiling point to dangerously high temperature...
From the Internet- a single 4 gram Bouillon cube contains 743 mg sodium. Presuming the sodium comes from NaCl, the total mass of NaCl would be 1.9 mg because sodium is 40% of the mass of NaCl. Presuming 0.5 liters of water, 1.9 g results in a salt concentration by mass of 0.4%. Also from the Internet, adding 3.3% NaCl to water will raise its boiling point by 0.5C, and this increase is scalable, so 0.4% NaCl should affect the boiling point by less than 0.1C.

I conclude that adding one Bouillon Cube to a small pan of water will not significantly modify the boiling temperature.

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Jetboil 0.8 L Ti Pot Weights on 03/06/2012 13:10:00 MST Print View

James Larkey wrote: > Jetboil 0.8 L Ti Pot Weights:

Plastic HX protector cup on bottom 34g
Ti Cup w/o cozy 106g
Cozy 20g
Plastic lid 19 g

TOTAL all above weighed 178g
James (Jim?),

If it's not too much trouble, could you weigh your burner as well?

Thanks,

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: get the aluminium one on 03/06/2012 14:13:57 MST Print View

the Ti version is 2oz lighter fully packed up, and 1.7oz lighter when stripped. It is also slightly more fuel efficient (gas mileage) and has a slightly faster boil.
Dang it, I am not getting those numbers. What the heck am I missing?

From the SOTM review:
The Jetboil Sol Advanced Cooking System, introduced in spring 2011, is the same as their top of the line Sol Ti Premium Cooking System, except it has an Aluminum pot instead of a Titanium pot, and the cozy has a heat indicator strip on it. It uses the same burner as the Sol Ti. Opting for the aluminum pot saves you US$30, and its only 2 ounces heavier.
So the only differences are a) the pot and b) the heat indicator strip on the cozy.

Let's give the heat indicator strip 5g. That's probably too heavy, but just for comparative purposes, let's use 5g. The Ti pot (only) weight reported by Jim Larkey is 106g. Matt reports a Al pot (only) weight of 136g. I get the same weight on my Al pot. My friend Will's Al pot is 135g. So, best two out of three, let's use 136g as the weight of the Al Sol pot. The difference between the pot weights then is 136g - 106g = 30g. Yes? And then add 5g for the indicator strip (again, probably too heavy, but just a "working number" for now). Total weight difference between the Ti and Al version is then 35g, yes? 35g = 1.2oz, which is closer to one ounce than it is to two ounces. If the heat indicator weighs less than 5g, then the weight difference is even closer to one ounce.

OK, am I missing something here? Is the SOTM report including something I'm not? I'll list the individual component weights below.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Item (in grams)
Pot 136
Burner 102
Cup 31
Cozy 23
Lid 18
TOTAL: 310 (10.93oz)

Not included:
Pot Support 37
Canister Legs 27

Jim Larkey
(jimlarkey) - MLife

Locale: NoCO
Ti Cooker weights on 03/06/2012 18:08:30 MST Print View

OK, for the Ti set:

Cooker 101.7g
Pot Support 36.3g
Plastic Stabilizer Tripod 27.5g

Edited by jimlarkey on 03/09/2012 13:05:08 MST.

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
Boiling Points on 03/06/2012 18:30:55 MST Print View

I know boiling points. All those chemistry and chemical engineering classes and I'm a somewhat serious cook. I agree with Jim W's conclusion.

You wouldn't drink soup salty enough to have a boiling point more than a degree or two higher. A cube of bullion? Not a factor as far as boiling point goes.

If you add a cup of sugar and start making carmel, sure, get to "soft-ball" or "hard-ball" and you can get 30-50F higher. But I don't think any ULers are making candy at 9,000 feet.

The two factors I do see as potentially significant when boiling non-pure water are

1) boil over which wets the pot, wets the flux ring, and transfers heat to the canister. And

2) the ions in something like bullion on something made of dissimilar metals. I haven't looked up the electrochemistry of Ti and Al, but some poorly choosen metal combinations can corrode away in minutes in salty water (nickel and copper, I seem to recall).

I'm packing for a family BP trip now, so I'm not going to do the research myself, but just on the face of it, it seemed odd to me that JB would mix Ti and Al in one pot given that it obviously heat cycles and some people (me, for instance) go sea kayaking and beach camping with our gear and expose it to some salty water. Sticking with one material throughout would havve made for a much more robust design.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Boiling Points on 03/06/2012 18:38:52 MST Print View

"A cube of bullion?"

Bullion is gold. It doesn't corrode much.

Bouillon is the salty soup.

Two different things.

--B.G.--

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Boiling Points on 03/06/2012 19:00:47 MST Print View

When you cook a pot with pasta, it can boil over

Why is that? and what would happen if you did this on a canister stove?

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Re: Boiling Points on 03/08/2012 17:12:25 MST Print View

"A cube of bullion?"
Bullion is gold. It doesn't corrode much.
Bouillon is the salty soup.
Two different things.

--B.G.--
Now you tell me! This explains why my best efforts at going UL have gone astray.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Boiling Points on 03/08/2012 17:39:49 MST Print View

David Thomas wrote: > I haven't looked up the electrochemistry of Ti and Al, but some poorly choosen metal combinations can corrode away in minutes in salty water (nickel and copper, I seem to recall).
David, if you ever do get a chance to dig into the electrochem of Ti and Al, I'd be very very interested in what you find out.

David Thomas wrote: > just on the face of it, it seemed odd to me that JB would mix Ti and Al in one pot given that it obviously heat cycles and some people (me, for instance) go sea kayaking and beach camping with our gear and expose it to some salty water. Sticking with one material throughout would havve made for a much more robust design.
It's been suggested that JetBoil is using diffusion bonding, a technology I know nothing about, to join the Al and Ti portions of the pot.

It is interesting that the difference in weight between the all Aluminum Sol and the Al-Ti version is apparently only about 1 ounce. I'm in the process of confirming those weights, so more on that later. Perhaps this is a bit of market segmentation?
High Segment
An "ultralight" version made from titanium (a metal with high "buzz word" value) that can command a better price ($150, ).
Mid Segment
An all aluminum version that still has all the high tech bells and whistles but is slightly heavier by about one ounce ($120, ).
Budget Segment
The lower tech but still quite functional "Zip" version ($75).

HJ
Adventures In Stoving