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Titanium JetBoil Sol -- CAUTION
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Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Orange County, CA, USA
Titanium JetBoil Sol -- Caution on 02/28/2012 13:46:23 MST Print View

The titanium version of the JetBoil Sol might have a problem. A potentially serious problem.

Please note that my concerns pertain to the titanium version of the JetBoil Sol only.

Titanium JetBoil Sol – Caution



Please note that not all the facts are in and that this is a "caution" only at this juncture. The potential consequences of a failure are serious enough that I think a “caution” is warranted even though all the facts are not in.

Note: These concerns were broached by John A, a member of BPL. I've collected them up into a separate post here and on my blog in order to highlight them. Some people may have missed them since they were contained within a post on JetBoil modifications rather than their own post. I think they're important enough to warrant a separate post.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Edited by hikin_jim on 02/29/2012 09:46:13 MST.

Chris W
(simplespirit) - MLife

Locale: .
Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol -- CAUTION on 02/28/2012 13:53:53 MST Print View

FWIW, the cases I've seen where that happened had to do with food spilling over and getting on to the heat exchanger. I'm not saying that makes things any less of a concern, but if you only boil water I wouldn't be too worried.

Disclaimer - there may be cases I haven't seen or heard about.

Edited by simplespirit on 02/28/2012 13:54:12 MST.

Phillip Colelli
(pdcolelli42)

Locale: AT, follow@ www.thruperspective.com
Re: Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol -- CAUTION on 02/28/2012 13:57:15 MST Print View

I think the thread that picture is from was a result of only boiling water and one bullion cube. I don't think it boiled over either but maybe the OP could comment. Regardless I think JB needs to address the issue somehow.

Nathan Watts
(7sport) - MLife
Objective Data on 02/28/2012 13:59:55 MST Print View

Looking forward to some objective testing and observations rather than all the speculation I've seen so far. Thanks for compiling the relavent data.

Have you been in contact with anyone other than John who has had the issue? What sort of events lead up to the failures of their stoves? Please forgive me if this is in the post, as I stopped reading the "other" threads after a while.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol -- CAUTION on 02/28/2012 14:03:42 MST Print View

What is it about the Jetboil that would make the problem worse?

If your generic canister stove boiled over, the liquid would hit the canister, and then you could have a major problem

Stuart R
(Scunnered) - F

Locale: Scotland
Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol -- CAUTION on 02/28/2012 14:09:29 MST Print View

"A like it could blow up and you could die kind of problem."

I think that is exaggerating it a bit. There is not much mass in those aluminium fins and aluminium has a low heat capacity. This is partly why it melts so easily, but if it were to drip on your canister it would not impart much heat. I would not be overly worried.

But the expensive pot is well and truly trashed.

Ultra Magnus
(Ultra_Magnus) - F
Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol -- CAUTION on 02/28/2012 14:13:55 MST Print View

I read your blog post (subscriber) and in my professional opinon there's no way that could cause the canister to blow up. I've spent my life, well, mostly my younger years, burning things, blowing things up, etc, (I had a creative childhood- spent many years wrenching on cars, and moved into a welding career so I spent a lot of time with molten metal).

First off- that's some really thin aluminum. I'm more than willing to bet if it would be lucky to make a burn mark if that small amount of aluminum "dripped" onto a wooden table. Aluminum has a low heat capacity, so by the time it fell those couple of inches it would cool off DRAMATICALLY. Secondly- motlen aluminum in an oxygen environment oxidizes almost immediately. So, I seriously doubt any molten aluminum would even reach the gas canister. It'd be more like flakey white aluminum oxide. And third, which kind of ties into point number one- the drops of hot aluminum (or aluminum oxide) would just bounce off the canister. Even if it had enough btu's of heat in it to get the canister hot enough to blow, it needs to transfer those btu's into the canister. That takes time. Duration of contact. There wouldn't be enough to get the job done.

I mean no offense. Like I said, I'm a subscriber of your blog. You post interesting stuff. But I personally thing alarmist messages like "OMG YOUR CANISTER IS GOING TO BLOW LIKE A CLAYMORE" don't belong in a respectable media outlet. I mean, seriously, if Backpacker Magazine published your article for a magazine do you think the Jetboil people wouldn't sue for damages?

BM

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol -- CAUTION on 02/28/2012 14:17:45 MST Print View

"But I personally thing alarmist messages like "OMG YOUR CANISTER IS GOING TO BLOW LIKE A CLAYMORE" don't belong in a respectable media outlet. I mean, seriously, if Backpacker Magazine published your article for a magazine do you think the Jetboil people wouldn't sue for damages?"

Damn hilarious. ; )

Nathan Watts
(7sport) - MLife
Re: Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol -- CAUTION on 02/28/2012 14:28:50 MST Print View

BM you took the words right out of my mouth with the heat capacity of the small mass of aluminum. Would love to see someone compile some numbers for this type of stuff. I know 1000 degrees sounds like a big scary number, but needs to be taken in context.

Nate

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Orange County, CA, USA
Re: Re: Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol -- CAUTION on 02/28/2012 14:46:37 MST Print View

That's good feedback, and I appreciate it. I think I will modify the blog post, BUT I also read the original post from the John who reported the problem. His stove was shooting flames up high into the air. Maybe I haven't described the mechanism correctly, but something happened that caused the stove to roar out of control.

Here's the original post:

I looked over at my jetboil and all I saw was this massive flame. The flames were probably three feet in the air. I ran over and dumped the last of my water on it (and thus went that night and the next morning w/o water) and when everything cooled down, there was evidences of some serious super heating. The little 'flux rings' ended up super heating and they were just going ballistic. The flux ring material got so hot that it started dripping down onto the ground (which did not go out when my threw my water on it, that stuff was crazy hot) and the drops of super heated metal were all over the canister - which scared me the most. A few of them actually melted/welded onto the canister of gas. The stupid orange thing was completely melted (I had to take a dremel to cut it off when I got back home - which is where I learned how easy it was to take them off). The bottom of the pot (not the flux, the bottom) as you can see in the photos above suffered major heat damage - and remember, titanium has a melting point of 3034(F).
If the temperatures got up to the point where titanium suffered heat damage, that's potentially very serious, and that kind of heat can cause a canister explosion even if the mechanism I described cannot.

Am I missing something?

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Edited by hikin_jim on 02/28/2012 14:47:38 MST.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol -- CAUTION on 02/28/2012 15:01:06 MST Print View

What would happen if boiling water ran over the canister?

Would the pressure increase to the point where the rate of flow of isobutane would dramatically increase, which caused the ball of flame, which then caused metal to melt?

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol -- CAUTION on 02/28/2012 15:12:40 MST Print View

Has anyone asked Jetboil anything at this point?

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol -- CAUTION on 02/28/2012 15:32:51 MST Print View

+1 Jerry - this was my thought as well.

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Orange County, CA, USA
Re: Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol -- CAUTION on 02/28/2012 15:45:42 MST Print View

> Has anyone asked Jetboil anything at this point?
Here is a link to the original post here on BPL that prompted me to put up my "caution."

In that post, John describes a conversation with JetBoil. Now, this was just one person at JetBoil, a person who didn't seem to be aware that the heat exchanger was aluminum. I doubt that this one person was acting as the official spokesperson of JetBoil, but at the same time, JetBoil has been made aware of the issue. I don't know if JetBoil regards these problems as occasional flukes or a serious problem.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol -- CAUTION on 02/28/2012 16:54:29 MST Print View

I mean since then, to a person with clout at Jetboil. Not just the nice lady who answers the phone.

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Orange County, CA, USA
Re: Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol -- CAUTION on 02/28/2012 17:23:09 MST Print View

Jerry Adams wrote: > What would happen if boiling water ran over the canister?

Would the pressure increase to the point where the rate of flow of isobutane would dramatically increase, which caused the ball of flame, which then caused metal to melt?
Jerry,

It's not completely clear that a boil over wasn't involved.

However, there are a lot of cases where no boil over happened but the heat exchanger either melted or had pieces fall off.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Orange County, CA, USA
Re: Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol -- CAUTION on 02/28/2012 17:26:07 MST Print View

> Has anyone asked Jetboil anything at this point? I mean since then, to a person with clout at Jetboil. Not just the nice lady who answers the phone.
Not to my knowledge. I'm working on something along those lines. Got a name and an email or phone number?

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol -- CAUTION on 02/28/2012 17:27:31 MST Print View

"However, there are a lot of cases where no boil over happened but the heat exchanger either melted or had pieces fall off."

Lot of cases? Where? Honestly. Where?

Phillip Colelli
(pdcolelli42)

Locale: AT, follow@ www.thruperspective.com
Re: Re: Re: Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol -- CAUTION on 02/28/2012 17:38:55 MST Print View

I just checked out your blog. Seems that's what you want right? Do you even own a jetboil? I didn't see any reviews for one on your blog. I understand your concern about the jetboil but dude I feel like you're just trying to get publicity for your blog.

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Orange County, CA, USA
Re: Re: Re: Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol -- CAUTION on 02/28/2012 18:19:35 MST Print View

Hmm. OK, that's fair criticism. "Lot's" wasn't a good word choice on my part. I know of two failures reported here on BPL, one on an Australian website, one on YouTube, and one more on another blog. That's a total of five failures. I haven't done an exhaustive search. I'll look and see what I find.

The reason I wrote something up is the potential severity of what was being reported. Maybe these are just QC rejects -- rejects that could occur in any manufacturing process. However, do note the use of words like "might" and "potential". I issued a "caution." I didn't do a full review and say the thing is a dangerous fire bomb.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving