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Lightest collapsible wood burning stove on the planet - the FireFly Stove
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Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
Lightest collapsible wood burning stove on the planet - the FireFly Stove on 02/27/2012 15:25:27 MST Print View

4/22/14 UPDATE:

Stove, trowel, and saw info: QiWiz.net

Before placing an order, please check the shipping page on my website (a link to this page is available on any page that you order from).

Try and find a more ultralight highly functional and pot-adaptable woodburner that easily assembles and comes apart into a neat, tidy flat package. Now laser-cut and tweaked to work with an even larger variety of pot and pans! Has a completely unique FlexPort option for feeding longer pieces of wood into the stove for longer burns, OR closing the Port for a quick chimney burn.

Titanium sides and stainless steel mesh shelf - weighs 2.7 ounces, 2.8 with a FlexPort! Standard with an 8 mil ziplock pouch. Optional reinforced tyvek pouch with velcro closure. Multifuel (Esbit and alcohol), grilling, and baking options.

See more information, links to videos, and how to purchase at: QiWiz.net
Videos include demos of assembly and disassembly as well as getting all fired up. Available FlexPort, MultiFuel, Grills, Bake Kits, Esbit-only burners, and other options also fully described.

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The vast majority of pots that backpackers use will work well on the stove. I have tested the stove with light pots up to 6" in diameter holding up to 1000 ml (32 ounces) of liquid. In the event that you want to use a cooking mug or beer can pot that is too narrow for the built-in pot supports, you will need to get a pair of my optional pot supports. The "narrow-light" supports insert into the lower holes and notches to span the stove in parallel at the same height as the built-in supports. They will support a light pot with up to 600 ml (20 ounces) of liquid. They are also perfect to support one of Gary's titanium grills (available at QiWiz.net). If you want to use a really wide pot or light frying pan (more than 6 inches in diameter), you will find that my optional "wide-heavy" pot supports are helpful. Using the higher holes and notches, they make an "X" above the firebox and add another inch of room under your wide pot or pan, for additional air flow and easier fire feeding. They will support a light pot or pan with up to 1000 ml (32 ounces) of liquid.

You know you WANT one . . .

ff2014b
ff2014c
ff2014d

Edited by QiWiz on 04/22/2014 14:49:54 MDT.

P. Larson
(reacttocontact) - F
Um.... on 02/27/2012 15:53:09 MST Print View

...the video's are private.

Stephen Barber
(grampa) - MLife

Locale: SoCal
Nice videos on 02/27/2012 17:33:09 MST Print View

The vids are working fine now.

Scott Ashdown
(waterloggedwellies) - F

Locale: United Kingdom
Re: Lightest collapsible wood burning stove on the planet - the FireFly Stove on 02/27/2012 18:04:17 MST Print View

What about the Pocket Ti Stove (wood burner, alcohol, esbit) at 1.975oz 56g. I'm thinking of getting one of these.

http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/product577.asp?PageID=1

I'm not connected with the company in any way other than as a customer.

Eric Lundquist
(cobberman) - F - M

Locale: Northern Colorado
Re: Re: Lightest collapsible wood burning stove on the planet - the FireFly Stove on 02/27/2012 19:45:22 MST Print View

I was going to post the same link. Found it last night researching wood burning stoves. I think the FireFly could benefit from the same circular punches to get the weight down even more.

I wonder if a 2/3 scale version of the FireFly would be more attractive to Heinie/Fosters' can users.

Franco Darioli
(Franco) - M

Locale: Melbourne
Lightest collapsible wood burning stove on the planet - the FireFly Stove on 02/27/2012 20:31:24 MST Print View

The first of this type of collapsible stoves I came across was the Little Dandy Wood burning stove, commonly called the Nimblewill Nomad after its designer :
http://www.nimblewillnomad.com/stove.htm
that does have some slots on the sides but a solid bottom .
little Dandy stove

Franco

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
Mea Culpa on the "lightest on the planet"; answers to questions and comments on 02/27/2012 20:34:35 MST Print View

Oooh how I hate to be wrong, but I guess I have to admit that the Pocket Ti stove is about a half-ounce lighter than the FireFly (at least if you don't use the tin it comes in). I had not found this stove when I did my research on woodburners, so I guess the FireFly is only the second lightest. I don't know how long the Pocket Ti has been available, but the current site lists it as a 2012 stove, so it may not be that long. The Pocket Ti appears to have achieved this even lower weight by having an open side/door and probably by having a smaller sized firebox overall.

Snide comment alert: If you watch the video on the Pocket Ti, the ability to use multiple fuels is nicely demonstrated, but it's also shown in the video that the addition of an Evernew titanium trivet to the top of the stove helps create air space between the top of the stove and a pot (if you like a squat pot like I do) and improves draft and performance. The trivet weighs 16g and costs an additional 12.99 pounds. With this modification, the Pocket Ti would probably draft as well as the FireFly, weigh as much, and cost more. Good to get that out of my system.

Anyway, at the risk of encouraging dissent, here are some of my thoughts on woodburning stoves in general from having made and used many of them over the years: [1] ignoring stove weight for a moment, a larger firebox makes a stove easier to light and easier to keep going; [2] you want a good air inlet under your fire and a good air exit above your fire but under your pot. So the trick in making a light woodburner is to satisfy #2 while making the firebox as small as is reasonable (but not too small) out of the lightest material you can. Titanium is what works best as a material, but adds expense (Oh well). The current size of the FireFly is as small as I would want to use myself. I could make a smaller FireFly, but it would be less stable in use and harder to keep going because it would not hold much wood. A 2/3 size FireFly would save maybe .75 ounces but would not work well IMO. Your opinions may vary.

Edited by QiWiz on 03/21/2012 08:02:07 MDT.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Lightest collapsible wood burning stove on the planet - the FireFly Stove on 02/27/2012 20:34:50 MST Print View

...almost
Always good to have choices.

Edited by kthompson on 02/27/2012 20:36:37 MST.

Franco Darioli
(Franco) - M

Locale: Melbourne
Lightest collapsible wood burning stove on the planet - the FireFly Stove on 02/28/2012 14:48:23 MST Print View

Robert
I don't see the dimensions of yours but the British version is about 4" high and 2.8" wide at the base .
That 4" looks to me to be the full height , not the height of the fire box..
As you can see from the video it is designed to take a Trangia stove , so not very big for a wood burning stove ...
Franco

Edited by Franco on 02/28/2012 16:12:26 MST.

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
FireFly dimensions on 02/28/2012 15:54:54 MST Print View

The FireFly firebox is 3.25 x 3.25 x 3.75 inches, which works out to about 40 cubic inches. Small but not too small.

3/2/12 UPDATE: Firebox now 3.25 x 3.25 x 4.00 inches, for a 42.25 cubic inch capacity

Compared to the "pocket stove", the FireFly has a 65% bigger firebox, as best I can calculate from the information on their site. 'Nuff said. Defense rests. ; )

Edited by QiWiz on 03/02/2012 12:11:29 MST.

kevperro .
(kevperro) - F

Locale: Washington State
I like the your stove better. on 02/28/2012 17:33:44 MST Print View

The Tyvek sleeve is a great idea. The difference in weight of the actual stove just doesn't matter if it holds a little more fuel. All the options may make great marketing material but the reality is you either use it to burn wood or it is a glorified wind screen for alcohol or Esbit.

I may buy one Robert because I miss my zip stove.

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
Good news, Bad news on 03/02/2012 05:18:08 MST Print View

Good News:
I have tweaked my design in such a way that firebox size increased by 5% with no increase in stove weight. Firebox is now 42.25 cubic inches. I have also improved the design of the optional tyvek pouch, adding only 2g to the original 9g weight, but the pouch interior is now completely reinforced with fiberglass mesh tape, for much greater durability. Now we're cooking!

Bad News:
Just ordered more titanium for stoves and trowels. Prices have increased a lot. I'm holding firm on trowel prices, but have had to increase the price of the FireFly stove by $5, since each stove uses quite a bit of Ti to make. The improved redesigned pouch is now optional rather than included. You can use a plastic ziplock or other DIY pouch if you like, but the tyvek one I'm making now is really nice.

Edited by QiWiz on 03/04/2012 08:07:54 MST.

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
Free stove floor upgrade; new FuelPort option for FireFly Stove on 03/12/2012 11:09:32 MDT Print View

3/20/12 UPDATE:

I have been able to find some 1/4" by 1/4" stainless steel mesh in an affordable quantity (as opposed to spending $$$$ on a full roll of it). It has replaced the galvanized steel mesh I have been using for stove floors. Everyone who has a galvanized floor will get a free upgrade from me. You're welcome!

The other thing I've been working on is a "FuelPort" option that will allow you to feed longer pieces of wood into the stove once you have your fire going. I am happy to say that this option as well as the even more astounding FlexPort option is now available. A video of a FlexPort prototype is also available on my website.

* In the FlexPort video, you will see that I put the ventilated ti floor (another new option, along with a perforated stainless steel floor) on top of the old mesh floor. This is not necessary; you can just use the ti floor by itself, saving a few grams.

Edited by QiWiz on 03/21/2012 08:07:16 MDT.

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
New stainless steel mesh floor; FuelPort and FlexPort options for FireFly stove on 03/20/2012 11:21:34 MDT Print View

Well the wait for the new FireFly stove floor material was worth it. I now have the 1/4" stainless steel mesh in hand and it is really nice. It replaces the previous 1/2" mesh as the new standard FireFly floor. Replacement floors went out this morning to early adopters as a free upgrade. Fits snugly in floor and actually tightens up the set-up stove as a result. No increase in stove weight. Less room for twigs and embers to fall through the floor mesh. More durable. What's not to like? Nada! Here's me admiring it.

newmeshinhand

And, NOW available on website are some additional options:

A FlexPort, so you can have your cake and eat it too - have an open FuelPort when you want one, and a closed FuelPort when you just want a quick chimney stove burn. Adds only 4 grams to the weight of a FireFly stove.
flexportclosed
flexportopen

I will also have an optional floor to reduce through-the-floor ventilation when using a FuelPort. This is a notched titanium plate.

All of this is live on my website for your perusal and even purchasing ; ) - Now we're cooking!

Edited by QiWiz on 02/24/2014 13:04:05 MST.

Stephen Barber
(grampa) - MLife

Locale: SoCal
Flex Port!!! on 03/20/2012 15:02:18 MDT Print View

Now that is very cool! I can see I'll have to buy another Firefly - the Flex Port version!

Good job, QiWiz!!!

Jacob D
(JacobD) - F

Locale: North Bay
Re: Flex Port!!! on 03/23/2012 09:55:34 MDT Print View

That's nifty, Robert. The Flexport is a cool idea.

Somehow I missed this thread entirely until today... I guess that tends to happen when I don't visit the forum daily.

Steven Bronstein
(sbronstein) - M
Air Flow on 03/24/2012 08:08:06 MDT Print View

I am wondering what the benefit to closing the fuel port door. Is there really an increase in efficiency by closing the fuel port door? My experience with paint can wood stoves is that the more air the better they worked. I think this is why Zelph ended up with an open mesh design for his folding wood stove. I think the benefit of the FireFly is increased volume of the fuel box and ease of adding wood as you burn. I was able to barely boil water with a single fill of wood and always seemed to need to add more wood.

This was also part of the pleasure of burning wood. The comfort and pleasure of working the fire.

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
Design matters on 03/24/2012 09:34:51 MDT Print View

Yes, a chimney design is more efficient, wind resistant, and heat concentrating. Most "paint can" hobo stoves do not have enough bottom ventilation.
My experience with wood burners is that the best design has air coming in from UNDER the fire, rising THROUGH the burning wood while being sheltered from any wind, and then EXITING freely above the burning wood, right under and/or around your pot. The standard FireFly does this very well with its open mesh (above ground but) under the burning twigs, a protected chimney of a firebox with 4 solid sides, and plenty of exit room under your pot.
When you create a side opening for feeding in longer pieces (aka my FuelPort and FlexPort options), you want air coming IN that Port to feed oxygen to the fire, so my notched Ti floor reduces bottom ventilation, so that the fire is now fed air about 50% through the bottom, and 50% through the Port.
Watch the videos on my website and this may be more obvious.

Edited by QiWiz on 03/24/2012 21:01:42 MDT.

kevperro .
(kevperro) - F

Locale: Washington State
Wind Screen on 03/24/2012 20:37:45 MDT Print View

Robert: Have you experimented with adding an additional standard wind screen around the stove. You would want to cut judicious air inlets around the base but that might give you even more heated air and wind coverage for complete combustion while adding < 1 ounce.

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
Wind screen ideas and comments on 03/24/2012 21:10:49 MDT Print View

I guess in my use of wood burners over the years I've been less concerned with wasting heat when burning wood than when burning alcohol or Esbit, because a twig fire burns pretty hot and I usually have all the twigs I need. So I have not generally bothered with a wind screen when wood burning.

BUT, in a windy spot, a windscreen of the type Kevin describes would definitely help heat your pot more effectively. You would need to leave an opening for feeding twigs in and maybe prop it up on some small rocks or sticks or cut openings in the bottom so that air could flow in to the area under the stove mesh.

BTW, all three FireFly videos on my site and YouTube have been updated to show the new floor, FuelPort, FlexPort, and all the other cool new stuff. This stove is HOT!

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
Combo special now available: Save on FireFly Stove + Trowel; Multifuel Option update on 04/05/2012 12:58:08 MDT Print View

NOTE: I've left this post up for history buffs - this was my 1st gen MultiFuel system, subsequently replaced by my 2nd gen and then 3rd gen systems. Can you dig it?

A MultiFuel Option for the FireFly is in the works. Just need to carve out some time to test the best combination of windscreen position, alcohol stove and/or Esbit stove distance from a typical pot, etc. Also need to get final weights for BPL'ers, but it's gonna be pretty light.

You can expect this to be available as an option for new stoves as well as for stoves already out there as an upgrade. Stay tuned. I'm hoping to have this available in 2-3 weeks. It could be sooner if I get a bit farther ahead of orders. Here's some prototype photos. Final version will be similar, but not identical. There will be both an alcohol stove and an Esbit stove option. These stoves will sit on the crossed support wires you can see in the photos. In the case of Esbit, there will be downgoing tabs to keep it centered on the "X". To my thinking, an Esbit option can be a great alternative to wood for a quick cup of tea or if the available wood is really wet and you don't have the time or inclination to deal with that situation.

ffmultif1

ffmultif2

ffmultif3

ffmultif4

Edited by QiWiz on 02/24/2014 13:11:11 MST.

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
MultiFuel Esbit and/or Alcohol Burner Option Now Available for the FireFly Stove on 04/14/2012 09:53:54 MDT Print View

Well you can stop holding your breath and relax. It's here, and it's light. My own FireFly MultiFuel Kit for my Stanco 5.75" diameter greasepot with a 2.85" windscreen weighs 28 grams (and that's with both burners, you would probably just take one).

You can get a MultiFuel Kit for a newly ordered FireFly at no additional shipping cost, and you can also get one for the FireFly you already have as an upgrade. All the information you need and easy-as-pie ordering as usual can be found on my website. Windscreen and support wires are custom-bent and cut to be a perfect fit for your pot dimensions.

Can you dig it?

J H
(jlhilliker) - F
RE: Stove on 04/14/2012 13:00:17 MDT Print View

Robert, I wonder if it would work if you cut a notch in each side wall about halfway up, bent them inwards, and then rested a square plate on the notches to hold an alcohol stove. Do you think the walls of the stove would be sufficient as a windscreen? Maybe trim to tips of the pot stand a little lower if need be? Just an idea

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
Would it work if . . . on 04/14/2012 14:01:01 MDT Print View

"I wonder if it would work if you cut a notch in each side wall about halfway up, bent them inwards, and then rested a square plate on the notches to hold an alcohol stove. Do you think the walls of the stove would be sufficient as a windscreen? Maybe trim to tips of the pot stand a little lower if need be?"

Yes, the walls of the FireFly would shield the stove itself, but not the space between the top of the stove firebox and the bottom of your pot, which is a 0.75 inch gap, and not the lower part of your pot. Trimming the tips of the pot stand tabs would reduce this gap, but would also reduce airflow through the stove and reduce the room to add twigs in wood burning mode.

So, bottom line, when using Esbit or alcohol in windy conditions your setup will be much more efficient using some kind of windscreen. This could be the kit that I've now made available, or something you cobble together yourself. You will get a faster boil with less fuel. The windscreen generally weighs less than half an ounce (13 grams is the weight for the one I'm using for a 5.75" 1L pot with a 2.85" windscreen that has a 0.5" gap around my pot). You could easily need to use more extra fuel than 13 grams in windy conditions; might as well take the windscreen.

john hansford
(jhansford) - MLife
FireFly Stove on 04/15/2012 06:54:11 MDT Print View

I bought a PocketTi earlier this year, but so far have found it too small. I couldn't get 2 cups to boil even after 5 reloads of bone dry wood, and then the stove blew over. Straight afterwards I lit up my Bushbuddy, and had no problem boiling water with 2 loads of wood. I was using a foil screen with both.

The volume of the Pocket firebox is only about 20 cu ins, whereas the BB is about 40 cu ins. If the firefly is 42 cu ins, then does it perform as well as the Bushbuddy?

A major disadvantage of the BB is having to use a pan large enough to carry it in to prevent it getting squished : I use a Tibetan 1100, but this weighs 5 ozs, and I don't need so much volume. BB ultra plus pan = 10.25 ozs, firefly plus smaller pan AGG 710 ml pan = 5.25 ozs.

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
FireFly vs Bushbuddy on 04/15/2012 07:55:14 MDT Print View

I don't own a Bushbuddy, but it looks like a nice stove. Hikin' Jim and Jacob (Hike It Like It) are both working on reviews of the FireFly, and they may be able to say something about the pros and cons of each, since they are familiar with the Bushbuddy.

The FireFly is about half the weight of the Bushbuddy, and collapses down into a flat package, which to me are both advantages. It also has FuelPort, FlexPort, and MultiFuel (Esbit or alcohol) options, which may be important to some.

I did not realize that the FireFly actually has a slightly bigger firebox than the Bushbuddy (from John's post above). When I really fill my FireFly up with wood, I can get two cups of water to a boil without adding more wood. In actual use, I often don't load it that much before lighting it and just add twigs as I need to based on the type of cooking I'm doing. My usual dinner takes 4 cups of water (2 for tea and 2 for the meal) so I need to add twigs during the burn for this much water anyway.

Edited by QiWiz on 04/15/2012 08:25:01 MDT.

john hansford
(jhansford) - MLife
Firefly stove on 04/15/2012 09:58:18 MDT Print View

One disadvantage I find with the collapsible stove is that you get sooty fingers assembling it and disassembling it, with the Bushbuddy you don't get dirty at all. Also embers fall out the bottom which can then blow onto the duff.

The tin that contains the Pocket stove is really handy for storing your lighter, fire steel, Hammaro paper or cotton wool, and a few ounces of solid fuel. A bit heavy if you are in sul mode of course. Can you source a tin for the firefly ?

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
Keeping soot away; stove storage on 04/15/2012 11:20:38 MDT Print View

Yes, I'll grant you that there is more risk of soot in a stove you assemble and disassemble. Every piece of gear has advantages and disadvantages. I find that the soot is relatively minimal, since the stove burns so hot. What does form is all on the inside, so as you take it apart and put it together you can usually avoid getting much on your fingers.

It is possible for ash and embers to fall down from the bottom of the stove, which is why I would always use a piece of foil under it. All my videos mention and demonstrate this. In windy dry conditions, I would form this foil into a bathtub shape to be even more sure that I was preventing anything blowing off the foil.

As far as storage goes, a tin is a heavy item, and could significantly increase the stove weight. This is certainly true for the tin you get with the Pocket Stove sold in the UK. If you really want something with rigid sides for the FireFly, anything that can hold a sandwich like a Tupperware sandwich container would work. But this is not what I recommend you do. Instead, the reinforced tyvek pouch I have available is quite light and serves this purpose well. Plenty of room for a few fire starters, lighter, what have you. I always keep a mini bic and some cotton balls in mine, for example. The tyvek pouch is light, and the whole idea is to keep it light. This is BPL after all. ; )

Edited by QiWiz on 04/15/2012 15:28:06 MDT.

Stephen Barber
(grampa) - MLife

Locale: SoCal
BB: No soot? on 04/15/2012 11:39:37 MDT Print View

@ John: While I can see how you'd stay sootless assembling the Bushbuddy, do you really stay sootless for the whole cooking process? Inevitably, I get sooted hands when dealing with the pot - very sooty item, that!

My experience is that any wood-fueled cooking experience is going to involve soot at some point - I'm more concerned with keeping the soot from spreading to everything else in my pack!

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
Pot soot prevention plan ; ) on 04/15/2012 13:15:13 MDT Print View

The way I prevent pot soot from getting on my hands and gear is to use a cozy. The inside of my homemade Reflectix cozy gets dirty, but not my hands or my pack/gear. Some folks keep a large ziplock or other plastic bag handy for the same purpose, but I like how the cozy also keeps my food hot and even works to replace simmering for many meals that call for a few minutes of simmering after adding food to boiling water.

Here's a comparison photo of a lightweight plastic sandwich container (35 grams) to my reinforced tyvek pouch (11 grams). In addition to the added weight, the container is more bulky than necessary. The pouch with stove in it is only about 0.25 inches thick; even with a few fire starters and a small lighter added, it would still be considerably more compact. Having said that, if anyone wants one of these containers with their stove, add $2 to your order and I'll squeeze one in.

lunch

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Pot soot prevention plan ; ) on 04/15/2012 14:24:44 MDT Print View

Backcountry Boiler.
No pot to get sooty.














Sorry just had to.

kevperro .
(kevperro) - F

Locale: Washington State
Nice additions! on 04/15/2012 15:07:11 MDT Print View

Nice work Robert.... the Firefly is full-featured now.

I used a wood-burner for the southern part of the PCT and never found soot to be a problem. You learn to live with it and if it bothers you that much a pair of latex gloves would add less than an ounce to your carry weight.

The Esbit/Wood option looks attractive to me.

John Abela
(JohnAbela) - MLife
Re: Re: Pot soot prevention plan ; ) on 04/15/2012 15:23:15 MDT Print View


Backcountry Boiler.
No pot to get sooty.


Yeah, and 7 ounces heavier than the FireFly.

Oh, yeah, and lets not forget... 10 MONTHS after paying for my Backcountry Boiler I STILL do not have it.

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
FireFly vs Backcountry boiler on 04/15/2012 15:25:44 MDT Print View

"Backcountry Boiler.
No pot to get sooty"

True that. Also no pot to cook in or eat out of. The BCB is probably a good match for the needs of folks that like to do freezer bag cooking. I don't have one to make any comparisons, but the BCB is really something different from a wood burning stove IMO. It is certainly bulkier than the FireFly and is probably also somewhat heavier than a FireFly paired with a light pot, cooking mug, or beer can pot. It looks like a nice design though.

john hansford
(jhansford) - MLife
Re : BB no soot on 04/16/2012 15:50:45 MDT Print View

@Stephen : I really don't get dirty using the BB. I cook eat and drink out of the one pan, so maybe I get rim marks on my face, but then I wouldn't know! However, I use a pair of cut down calf leather flying gloves when top feeding wood or picking up the hot pan handles, which will help - I really don't want nasty burns when on the trail and those flames are hard to see sometimes in the sun. Also I've only used bone dry wood, and not been forced to burn damp smouldery stuff, so I always have a hot and fairly clean flame. When all is done the stove goes into a small plastic bag, they nest into the pot, and everything goes into another light bag for packing :-)

I was interested to try the Backcountry Boiler too, but my emails to Devlin have remained unanswered, and the site seems quiet.

+1 : " Nice work Robert.... the Firefly is full-featured now. ". !

Chris Martin
(hope_for_gorilla) - F

Locale: Finger Lakes
FireFly on 04/18/2012 19:36:33 MDT Print View

Robert,

I just purchased one of your FireFly stoves used from here.

On a first test with very dry hardwood twigs, I noticed that the stove couldn't keep a flame when I set the pot on. (I'm using a Vargo 900 mL.) It would just sit and smoke and smolder and never boil.

As soon as I removed the pot, the flames returned and the smoke subsided. But as soon as I set the pot back down, the stove died down and just emitted lots of smoke again.

Also, I could blow into one of the corners to elicit flames with the pot down, but they wouldn't last once I ran out of breath.

Any idea what I'm doing wrong? I tried for an hour and could not boil a pint of water. It looks like an airflow problem, which is weird considering that there's plenty of space for exhaust to escape out the top of the stove, even with the pot. There was no breeze and I wasn't using a windscreen.

Thanks for the guidance!

Edited by hope_for_gorilla on 04/18/2012 19:37:48 MDT.

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
FireFly puzzler on 04/18/2012 20:11:58 MDT Print View

@ Chris -

"first test with very dry hardwood twigs, stove couldn't keep a flame when I set the pot on . . . As soon as I removed the pot, the flames returned and the smoke subsided. But as soon as I set the pot back down, the stove died down and just emitted lots of smoke again . . . Any idea what I'm doing wrong? I tried for an hour and could not boil a pint of water. It looks like an airflow problem, which is weird considering that there's plenty of space for exhaust to escape out the top of the stove, even with the pot. There was no breeze and I wasn't using a windscreen"

I've edited out my original response to Chris so that it does not mislead others. Dan (zelph) suggested later in this thread that the pot supports on the FireFly might not be high enough. That turns out to be true for larger pots (even some squat 900 ml pots) but not for cooking mugs, beer can pots, and smaller squat pots. There are now large pot supports that are included with the FireFly and are a free retrofit for already-purchased FireFly stoves.

Edited by QiWiz on 05/13/2012 15:34:24 MDT.

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
FireFly Loses Weight ! on 04/22/2012 06:19:49 MDT Print View

It was already ultralight, but I've been able to get some titanium that is 25% thinner and made some stoves and test burns. No problems, but it does not look like I can get any more of this thickness, so the "regular" FireFly will be it.

FF ultra thin

Edited by QiWiz on 02/24/2014 13:08:43 MST.

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
FireFly reviewed by JacobD and others; new MultiFuel option on 05/06/2012 12:54:45 MDT Print View

Jacob has kindly posted a review of the FireFly on his blog: Hike It Like It
as well as an interview. You can check it out at:

http://hikeitlikeit.com/2012/firefly-stove/

I've also made some changes to the FireFly multifuel option: improved integrated windscreen supports and new DualFuel burner. Video at:

http://youtu.be/wlPNwdKMQso

There's also a fellow in Japan who has done a nice 3-part video review of the FireFly:
(the version of the MultiFuel kit he got is still available, but has been upgraded)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efk7OZHUbeg&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-SV6g-o5Cc&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOECiQJlQvU&feature=plcp

Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Re: FireFly puzzler on 05/11/2012 21:35:09 MDT Print View

I can see the pot supports are too low and will cause problems.

(As soon as I removed the pot, the flames returned and the smoke subsided. But as soon as I set the pot back down, the stove died down and just emitted lots of smoke again.)

Edited by zelph on 05/11/2012 21:37:08 MDT.

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
Pot support height question on 05/12/2012 05:59:44 MDT Print View

@Dan

You said "I can see the pot supports are too low and will cause problems"

[edit: you can read below my first defensive response; see my less defensive and data-based response a couple posts below]

If this were actually true, why aren't I hearing about it from folks using a FireFly? How can I use my own FireFly with no problems? There are YouTube videos of the FireFly that were made by folks other than me that do not show any such problem.

The air inflow and outflow of a woodburner is a dynamic system, influenced by the size of air inlets, the size of air outlets, the amount and position of fuel wood that might block air flow, and finally the pot on top. I know you know that's true. The FireFly outlet is designed to match the inlet (adjusted for an average amount of fuel wood obstruction). The FireFly outlet is larger (in surface area relative to the firebox size) than the Emberlit designs, which work well and are very popular. So I'm gonna have to disagree with you on your statement.

[edit: actually, after further testing, have to agree with Dan that at least for larger pots, higher pot supports definitely work better; and a solution is now available as a free retrofit for existing owners of FireFly stoves and included with new stoves]

Edited by QiWiz on 05/13/2012 15:20:53 MDT.

Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Re: Pot support height question on 05/12/2012 17:25:32 MDT Print View

Hello Robert,

Chris Martin is the first to let you hear that someone is having an honest to goodness problem with your stove design. He said he bought it used from someone here on bpl. That person didn't want anymore.....wonder if he had the same problem as chris Martin.

One of the reasons stove designers/makers don't hear from customers is that they think it's their fault a stove does'nt work. They are too timid to ask for help from the designer/seller. Chris Martin is an exception. He wants knowledge. He want to know the how to's and what fors.

We've heard of people having problems with alcohol stoves and the the reason given by the designers/sellers is "bad fuel" or you didn't prime it long enough.

Robert, now you are saying that the position of fuel wood might block air flow. see, it's fuel related, not the design of the stove.

We have to listen to what Chris Martin is saying. He says the stove is on fire, burnig just fine. Plenty of oxygen for ignition and burning. He puts the pot on and all of a sudden things go to pot. He takes the pot off and things go back to norm.

Robert, there are a lot of folks out there that would'nt say diddly squat if they had a mouthful. Let's be glad that Chris Martin is not one of them. We can learn from guys like him.

Just because you can make your stove work, don't expect everyone out there to have your fire making skills in you stove design.

Increase the height of your pot supports and you'll a lot of Chris Martin's happy.

I may have seen an Emberlit video that showed the exact same thing that Chris experienced but who want's to go searching for videos?

As it stands, I still say to Chris, the pot supports need to be higher and it's not his fault the fire goes into a smoke mode when the pot is put on.

I have quite a bit of experience with wood stove design to back up my statement. It's just my 2 cents woth.

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
Larger pots DO need to be higher, and here's an UL way on 05/13/2012 15:09:33 MDT Print View

Well, time to eat some humble pie. First off, I'd like to thank Dan (zelph) for bringing up the idea of having higher pot supports, and that this might explain what Chris Martin described (see FireFly puzzler posts above this one). Dan has lots of stove experience, and I'm glad he took the time to make his observations, as I believe the growing number of FireFly users will benefit from them.
Anyway, this being a non-working, non-hiking weekend for me, I thought it would be a great time to do some backyard testing of Dan's hypothesis. I did numerous burns this morning using found twigs from my backyard without any special preparation. I have come to 4 conclusions:
(1) If you are using a tall cooking mug, a beer can pot, or something similar, the regular height of the FireFly pot supports (3/4 inch) works just fine.
(2) If you are using a fairly large pot with a big bottom diameter, like a squat 1.3L Evernew pot, higher pot supports definitely work better (less smoke, better burn and heating of pot).
(3) If you are using something in a middle size range, like a squat 900 ml pot, you will probably also prefer higher pot supports, though you may decide that the regular height works just fine for you. Tall 900 ml pots work pretty well without them.
(4) If your goal is to have a longer burn with little smoke, lighting your fire from the top is definitely the way to go.

The FireFly, fortunately, was already designed with and shipped with small pot supports for narrow/tall cooking mugs, beer can pots, and the like. This made it easy to come with (drum roll) "large pot supports" that are attached the same way, and raise a pot an additional 1.25 inches. Time for a photo:

FF large pot supports

So for those of you who have a FireFly, including Chris (if I can get his mailing address), I will send you on request, at no charge, a pair of these large pot supports. For those of you thinking about getting a FireFly, these large pot supports will also be included as part of the basic package. They go easily into your tyvek pouch with the stove.

For a video showing a top down burn with a large pot and the new supports (as well as boiling 3 cups of water with one stove-load of wood), see:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1GyV2h2EqE&feature

Edited by QiWiz on 05/14/2012 11:25:26 MDT.

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
Free FireFly large pot support upgrade on 05/18/2012 10:22:25 MDT Print View

See thread above regarding the new large pot supports. I'm happy to say that a pair has been made and sent out to everyone who has purchased a FireFly. If I somehow missed you and you do not get a pair by a week from today, please contact me and I'll take care of it. These will now be a standard item included with any new purchases.

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
Special combo deal available for the next two weeks on 06/03/2012 14:41:59 MDT Print View

until 6/18/12. Combo deal is a discount on any ti trowel and any FireFly stove system. QiWiz.net "Specials" page has the information.

Can you dig it?

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
The trail is calling to me . . . on 08/17/2012 10:14:18 MDT Print View

I'll be on trail from 8/30/12 through 9/15/12.

Gear ordered in next week (through 8/24) will be mailed out before I go. ; )

After that, you may have to wait until the week of 9/17 to get your gear. : (

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
Special FireFly stove combo deal is back! on 10/08/2012 13:23:11 MDT Print View

Your patience is rewarded, if you've been waiting for the next stove+trowel combo deal. This one's on until November 1st. In addition to saving on the combo price, order as many stove accessories with your stove as you want and pay no extra shipping costs.

Can you dig it? My Specials page has the details.

Edited by QiWiz on 10/21/2012 13:37:10 MDT.

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
FireFly upgrade notice on 11/08/2012 14:23:01 MST Print View

As of today, all FireFly stoves will have titanium rod (rather than steel) small and large pot supports, FlexPort door keepers, and windscreen supports (for MultiFuel option). Lighter, stronger, better.

Can you dig it?

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
New Year, HOT deal on a FireFly on 01/14/2013 11:24:04 MST Print View

The FireFly is now laser-cut, which has allowed me to reduce the price more than 10% for the very popular FlexPort-equipped model. 8 mil ziplock pouch included at no extra charge.

QiWiz.net is the place to go for all the information about the FireFly.

Edited by QiWiz on 02/24/2014 13:14:20 MST.

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
Bigger wood stove on your mind? - Introducing the FireFly XL on 02/12/2013 12:37:50 MST Print View

I think the FireFly is as light as a folding or take-apart wood stove that packs flat can be and still be big enough to work well.

However, the bigger the firebox, the easier it is to start and maintain a fire. A bigger firebox also makes cooking with bigger pots or groups of people easier.

To that end, I've designed and had titanium cut for a limited number of FireFly XL stoves. These come standard with my FlexPort fuel door, built-in large pot supports, stainless steel mesh floor and titanium foil floor insert (to use if less bottom ventilation is desired), and titanium rod small pot supports if/when needed.

All this for 5.9 ounces and a firebox that is twice the volume of the FireFly.

Get 'em while they're hot at QiWiz.net
Photo shows XL's next to regular FireFly stoves for comparison.

<FFXL

Edited by QiWiz on 02/12/2013 12:39:29 MST.

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
February Fire Sale on 02/23/2013 17:20:53 MST Print View

Get a FireFly wood burning stove and get 10% off any other items you get at the same time: a trowel, a saw, a complete cook kit, a titanium windscreen, etc. No maximum. Make sure you go to the Specials page at http://QiWiz.net/specials.html when you place your order to activate the discount. I will rebate it back to your PayPal account. Offer expires March 1.

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
March Madness - Best Sale Ever Offered at QiWiz.net on 03/01/2013 08:18:15 MST Print View

During March, 2013, buy any wood burning stove OR trowel and I'll rebate back to you 10% of your entire order, including any additional items you want to get at the same time. To get the discount, visit my Specials page and add the discount to your order for a penny.

And you thought March Madness was not related to backpacking!

Can you dig it?

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
NEW 3rd gen MultiFuel Option for FireFly and FireFly XL stoves on 03/17/2013 13:11:04 MDT Print View

More versatile, dual use, more durable, lighter - what's not to like?

Check it out HERE

Edited by QiWiz on 03/17/2013 13:16:25 MDT.

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
FireFly and FireFly XL Stove rebates during August "Add A Penny" Sale on 08/18/2013 16:01:26 MDT Print View

To get your rebate, make sure you add a penny on my Special Deals page. Rebates also available on trowels of any size. The more you order, the bigger the rebates get!

QiWiz.net has all the info . . .

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
October Special Deal: Who needs support(s)? on 10/01/2013 12:57:52 MDT Print View

October special deal #2:

Save on a FireFly stove with FlexPort if you don't need small or large pot supports (most folks don't as best I can tell). Access this on Specials page at QiWiz.net

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
November FIRE SALE is on ! on 11/09/2013 08:51:27 MST Print View

During November, you can get more than 10% off a regular FireFly stove or any size titanium trowel. Just go to the Specials page for all the details.

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
FireFly woodburning stoves 10% off on 02/03/2014 07:53:24 MST Print View

While my inventory lasts, there will be a 10% discount on them, accessed from my Special Deals page.

Get 'em while they are HOT !!

Edited by QiWiz on 02/24/2014 12:59:04 MST.

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
FireFly XL Stoves also on sale !! on 03/17/2014 08:33:32 MDT Print View

I've decided to expand my FIRE SALE to include the larger FireFly XL stove, as long as inventory holds out.

This is the first time I've put the FireFly XL on sale.
Time to take advantage of my March Madness!

Happy St. Patrick's Day to all!

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
Going . . . going . . . (2013 FireFly stoves almost gone) on 04/10/2014 14:48:52 MDT Print View

I have just three left, all FlexPort models, with an additional price reduction available on my Specials page.

Can you dig it?

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
2014 FireFly models now available with introductory pricing ! on 04/22/2014 14:59:47 MDT Print View

The 2013 models are all gone, BUT the 2014 models are here. My first post in this thread has been updated with information and pictures of the 2014 model. Subtle but important enhancements. A small increase in the height of the built-in pot supports has resulted in the basic stove working well for pots up to 6" in diameter. The FlexPort still allows for quick chimney burns or feeding longer pieces of wood in through the port for more controlled slow cooking, simmering, baking, or grilling. Optional small/narrow supports will allow for use of beer can pots and cooking grills. Optional wide/heavy supports will allow for use of frying pans and other cooking pots larger than 6" in diameter. All the details at QiWiz.net

Can you dig it? Intro pricing in effect until the end of May. What's not to like?

Gary Dunckel
(Zia-Grill-Guy) - MLife

Locale: Boulder
re: 2014 FireFly models now available with introductory pricing ! on 04/22/2014 15:25:17 MDT Print View

Congratulations on the new, improved FireFly stove. You keep coming up with great tweaks.

I would also like to remind those of you that want to purchase one of my mini grills to use with the 2014 FireFly--you will also want to purchase a pair of Rob's regular supports, which will also support the grill nicely. The grill won't work without them.

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
New Special Deal: FireFly + Ti Pot on 06/24/2014 10:51:17 MDT Print View

Through the month of July, visit my Specials Page at QiWiz.net to access this deal, which gives you 10% off a FireFly wood burning stove when you order it as a combo deal with one of the great Ti pots I carry.

Can you dig it?

FF with Ti Pot