Forum Index » Chaff » High Price of Gear on Gear Swap Forum

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Roger Dodger
(RogerDodger) - F

Locale: Wess Siide
Re: Re: Re: Re: High Price of Gear on Gear Swap Forum on 02/23/2012 10:07:14 MST Print View

I grew up around an intense price haggling culture. dont like it. Its not for me. I'm a fixed price - take it or leave it - type. I see that in my personality too. either black or white - a tiny margin for grey area.

give me your lowest best offer ONCE.

that is why people dont like a slimy car salesman, because of the inconsistent pricing and discount for seemingly identical product.

Edited by RogerDodger on 02/23/2012 10:08:53 MST.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Re: High Price of Gear on Gear Swap Forum on 02/23/2012 11:01:47 MST Print View

" if an item is being "Bumped" by the seller 3,4,5 or even more times,

Then I am likely to delete ALL the bumps. Bump postings are not-approved.

Roger Caffin
Online Community Monitor
Backpacking Light"

3 times ought to be the limit. Like most things in life, it's just so much better if we all exercise some common courtesy and self restraint. T's would be a shame if we adults need to have umpteen rules and regulations over us!

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Re: Re: High Price of Gear on Gear Swap Forum on 02/23/2012 11:35:32 MST Print View

I agree that bumping more frequently than about two days gets a little old.
But an absolute limit of three seems a little tight.

I had a TN Photon up for sale for about 6 months. Maybe it was the wrong time of the year, maybe it was priced to high, maybe I wasn't in a hurry. But I bumped it many times, at about once a week.

Selling a windshirt at $40 will have a much wider pool of buyers than a $600 cuben shelter. Spring is high season for gearing up, and winter not so much. Not everyone is glued to the screen waiting for a deal.

Items fall off the Gear Swap front page fast, but that is no reason to keep flogging your gear. A smart buyer will be looking past Page 1, or doing a "Search Forums".

Better to drop a PM to an overly aggressive seller than to hammer those who are aware and considerate.

Edited by greg23 on 02/23/2012 11:36:46 MST.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Re: Re: High Price of Gear on Gear Swap Forum on 02/23/2012 11:51:19 MST Print View

I rarely look at a GSF post, and there are a lot of them. Pretty easy for me to ignore them, even the bumped ones. Why is everyone so ornery lately? To be honest, I could care less one way or the other.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: High Price of Gear on Gear Swap Forum on 02/23/2012 12:12:49 MST Print View

" I couldn't care less one way or the other."

Fixed it for you. :)

Edited by ben2world on 02/23/2012 12:19:15 MST.

Justin Baker
(justin_baker) - F

Locale: west coast best coast
Re: High Price of Gear on Gear Swap Forum on 02/23/2012 12:31:41 MST Print View

The best thing you can do is just offer a price you feel is reasonable. It's better to get that out than just expect the person is going to lower their price.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: bump on 02/23/2012 14:50:39 MST Print View

Yes Ben, but I think you and I may be the only one's who got it.

Nice to know someone with a similar sense of humor.

Oh....and Bump

Stephen Barber
(grampa) - MLife

Locale: SoCal
Another bump on 02/23/2012 15:48:53 MST Print View

David, I just saw this thread, and thought your "bump" was hilarious! Since there's no too many bumps, will they all get trashed???

I think everyone has the right to try to sell their un-needed stuff at any price they want. And they also have the right to not buy someone else's stuff unless they like the price it's at.

When selling stuff, I'm usually more interested in getting it sold than in getting a certain price for it. If it doesn't go within the first 25 hours, the price goes down, and continues down until someone takes it. Seems to have worked so far.

Gary Dunckel
(Zia-Grill-Guy) - MLife

Locale: Boulder
Some bumps are cool though on 02/23/2012 16:14:21 MST Print View

I liked the WTB bumps a week or so by, who was it, Roger Alsborg? He was determined to find an Ion pack. The daily bumps were like a "Good morning, all" to me, and it let us know that he didn't leave town or die in his sleep. Too darned bad he didn't see the one for sale this morning.

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Roger, how a bout wtb? on 02/23/2012 17:53:59 MST Print View

Roger, I'm trying to acquire old stoves, am I wrong bumping my old "wtb" threads? Since the policy change, it is my work-around to post my request as I have not paid to be a member here. Let me know.

Franco Darioli
(Franco) - M

Locale: Melbourne
High Price of Gear on Gear Swap Forum on 02/23/2012 22:20:14 MST Print View


Three times sounds fair.
Except for items posted during the week end (keep in mind that we in Australia are a day ahead of you guys) during Public Holidays and School Holidays.
I would exempt vegetarians and people having a surname starting with D.
Red heads in particular need a fair go after all it isn't their fault.
Oh and posts on days ending with the letter Y.

OK, seriously there is a lot of gear that I would like to try out at half its retail price but if the seller can get 90% why shouldn't he?
After all a lot of gear here is really swapped, that is we try it and often find something else that is a bit closer to our new want so pass it along.


Robert Cowman
(rcowman) - F - M

Locale: Canadian Rockies
Re: High Price of Gear on Gear Swap Forum on 02/23/2012 22:47:39 MST Print View

My dollar is worth 5% more but my gear cost 25-40% extra and we get gouged on shipping. If people are willing to pay the GSF will always work.sometimes people dont want to spend 4 days looking to save an $8 on a $400 item.

Oh if you want security of a return policy just sell it on the GSF like everyone selling NWT stuff at 90% of what they paided.

Edited by rcowman on 02/23/2012 22:48:37 MST.

Harald Hope

Locale: East Bay
gear swap is fine on 02/24/2012 11:16:34 MST Print View

Edward Jursek, don't fret so much. What I've done is take these high/regular/low prices to determine what an item is actually worth to people. For example, I just bought a new, in bag, with tags, sleeping bag, that had been in gear swap a month or so. i flagged, and got emailed once the item dropped to a sellable price. However, it was my feeling that given the item is new, not opened or used, and that it costs a lot new, the seller had every right to try to get as close to the new price as he could. Just as I could not buy it at that price. Worked out well, got a new wm summerlite for 270. Not bad. And that's in my opinion exactly what it's actually worth.

Some gear makers, as people noted here, don't have inventory, you have to wait to get it, weeks often, and are super specialized. Those carry a premium. One person here mentioned the photon he tried to sell for a long time, why that never sold is beyond me, those are very cool tents. So who knows what makes people decide things have value at x price or not. I got a tarptent rainbow here, used, older model, for about 45 less than new, you can't find them for less, that's in my opinion more than its actual value, but there is no supply of used ones, for good reason, they are cool tents.

I just sold two items, I priced them based on the value the current bpl buyers seem to put on them, the prices were the same roughly as what I had bought them for here, weren't used additionally, so it's safe to say that is their actual value to people. Those both sold within hours. Someone a few days later tried selling one of the same items for at first 30 more, and it did nothing, had to lower the price. So it's really to your advantage as a seller to not worry about those few extra dollars which make zero difference to anyone's life, and to just sell it at the valued price, stuff sold like that almost always goes right away.

So rather than worry about people posting stuff at high prices, just watch it, you'll learn what this group of people actually values the stuff at, ie, what it is worth today. That's also going to e seasonal of course, I'm sure you can get a premium on spring/summer gear if you sell it closer to summer.

I recent bought an item I thought was a bit high priced, but objectively, I saved 20 over new price, plus state tax, and the seller had to pay a fair amount to ship it, was heavy, so he really didn't get that much out of it, and I saved some over new, I don't see the problem.

Other items retain a real premium, titanium pots, for good reason, they work fine no matter how used.

Now where I agree about totally unrealistic expectations among sellers here is when they sell damaged items that are heavily used, you know, oh, there's just a small burn hole, or a line of stitching has come off, stains, etc... easy to fix. If it's easy to fix, they should fix it, if they didn't fix it, it's because it is a pain in fact to fix it, and the price should reflect that. That's the single place I really have to wonder about some of the sellers expecations. But that's the minority. One person I was talking to about a puffy item warned me specifically to be very careful here about buying used puffies, not worn a few times then sold, but truly used. The same would go I assume for other gear, once it's gotten real use, the price should really reflect that, it's no longer a question of the out the door markup being removed, then it's a question of the true value of the product being diminished by wear.

But overall my experience on these gear forums has been great, with one exception, but that guy was just a slacker stoner as far as I'm concerned, no evil intentions, just a total and utter flake. And even then I finally got my stuff from him.

Re the bumps, I really wish those would be allowed, they don't hurt anyone, and all the person is doing is trying to find a buyer, once the stuff is off the first page the eyeballs plummet, I have no objection to that, bpl already gets people to sign up so they can sell, why add more difficulties, a bump doesn't hurt anyone. Sometimes you can get carried away by modding, it's not worth it. By the way, I became a member not so much to sell, but specifically because I found the buying experiences here on the whole so nice, and the sellers so honest, as long as you filter out the people selling junk at too high a price, ie, damaged goods, that it was just refreshing, worth at least one membership, even though I read tons of websites and get most of my information etc for free.

Edited by hhope on 02/24/2012 11:28:46 MST.

John Jensen
(JohnJ) - F

Locale: Orange County, CA
Re: High Price of Gear on Gear Swap Forum on 02/24/2012 11:49:43 MST Print View

The economists tell us that when something sells for the highest price it also goes to the person who needed it most. Heh. That's what's half-right and half-wrong about (old-school) economics. In reality, it goes to the person who thought they needed it most ;-). Thaler's "Winner's Curse" is a great book.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: gear swap is fine on 02/24/2012 14:16:16 MST Print View

Hi Harald

> Re the bumps, I really wish those would be allowed, they don't hurt anyone,
I understand you position on this, but look at it from the other side.

We have to clamp down very hard on spammers who keep trying to sell fake Nike shoes from China etc in several of our channels. If we didn't, we would be snowed under.

If we permit unlimited Bumps, we would end up with an unending stream of Bump postings flooding everything else out, as some vendors (not all, I am sure) would try several times a day to keep their items at the top of the list. I repeat - I do not think many would do this, but even a few could ruin it for everyone else.

I think this is one of those cases where there are no perfect solutions.

Roger Caffin

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
bumping on 02/24/2012 14:46:16 MST Print View

3 bump limit? Really?

I have not once seen this enforced within the swap. Does it even need to be? The Gear swap and its participants regulate themselves just fine without needed an itchy fingered moderator waiting to correct a violation. Shuffle through the swap right now and you'll probably find numerous "offenders"- good luck with that responsibility. What technically constitutes a "bump" anyways? Posting a comment on your own thread?

Sure, strike down the mighty hand on those errant spammers that don't contribute, active BPL members flag and report them for you moderators anyways.

Harald Hope

Locale: East Bay
ban spammers on 02/24/2012 15:04:53 MST Print View

Oh, I'm not talking about spammers Roger, I have a zero tolerance, zero warning policy on spammers on my forums, that works by the way very well, after a while they get tired of it and leave, or slow to a trickle, thus removing most mod duties from me. With spammers I encourage bpl to be as aggressive as needed, those types are just parasites. Easier if you have actual control over the site programming, not as easy when you don't.

I delete all spammers that manage to get signed up without warning, they aren't people, usually it's automated, and if manual, it's a paid drone somewhere. Hint: collect the data on each spammer as they appear, then apply that data once the patterns are detected. Sort of fun in a sick sort of way, the patterns tend to be easy to find.

I should have been more specific, I meant real users selling real gear, to me it's usually quite easy to see which is which. Or real people like mr big dig creating and selling very cool stuff.

Just to clarify, I find value in excessively high or optimistic initial offering re prices, because those show me what the real value is, because nobody pays it. Or usually they don't. And if they do, that product might just have that value to enough people to make it worth trying to get it, which gets back ot the point of not worrying about what people ask for their goods, sometimes they get it even if what some consider too high, usually not. Especially for brand new stuff, I can see the reluctance to admit the value is less than the price that was paid, but again, there are warranty issues that have to also be considered when noting full value, and those are worth different things to different people.

Edited by hhope on 02/24/2012 15:10:53 MST.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: ban spammers on 02/24/2012 15:38:52 MST Print View

"Sort of fun in a sick sort of way, the patterns tend to be easy to find."

Yes. I've found most spammers are part of just a few groups, and each group has the same IP address. So, once I identify one of the group, and then two of the group, the rest of the group is simple.


Harald Hope

Locale: East Bay
hah on 02/24/2012 16:04:21 MST Print View

if the spammers you encountered are at such a primitive stage that you can use ip filters of any type with success, consider yourself very fortunate. But that's rare, spamming is a core sales point for zombie bot nets, ie, ip addresses always change. Sometimes certain ranges can be safely blocked (certain 100% scum/spam hosters/isps for example, or certain countries if you have that luxury) but it's not common. For the level you'd find here though, my guess is ip filtering will take care of almost all the human ones, just because they are real products. However, even for general spamming, there are always script kiddies out there who don't have access to rotating ips or botnets, then blocking their ip address is workable but generally it's a waste of time. I rarely see repeats except when they are testing stuff or debugging their tools.

They have this all automated now however for more general spamming, rotating host machine, auto aquired emails, they cracked gmail's silly illegible confirm thing years ago now. It's a surprisingly small market though for the tools they use, you can tell.

The russians like to test their automated stuff on my systems, I take it as a backhanded compliment, although now and then the compliment is explicit via or other clever communication methods, and of course, the more they work it, the better the antispam filters get , leaving us at a sort of stalemate. Fun game in a sick senses, as noted, but still not a bad game.

What's funny is to see mods and users talking to these automated postings and non real members, as if they were humans that want to reason and talk, when all it is is whatever the going rate per posting per link is.

I guess it's ok to go totally off topic, this is chaff after all.

Edited by hhope on 02/24/2012 16:13:52 MST.

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
"High Price of Gear on Gear Swap Forum" on 02/24/2012 16:32:15 MST Print View


So you're saying no one is on the other line? Dangit.