How'd the new framesheet hold up to that much weight ? Any less torso collapse than the old foam ?

What the issue was with the new straps ? Did they curve into a tube and cause pressure - or something else ?

Are the hip belt pockets removeable ? The BPL review of the 2010 Peak makes it sound like they might be (if the pockets are the "removeable wings").

Also, any guesses on whether one of the SMD or GG hoop stays would improve the carry with 25-27 lb loads - and fit into the pad pocket ?

Thanks.

The straps are (for me) ideally shaped. No deformation or other nonsense. I'd just prefer a little more beef to spread the impact of the weight around.

The belt pockets are not removable (save with scissors).

The Jam carries 30 pounds well, if you pack it well. I'm not sure the newer, thinner yet denser framesheet performs differently than the 2011 one.

A major part of the article I'm working on will test torso collapse with both the stock configuration and other, MYOG solutions, which will include various sorts of stays. It wouldn't be hard to make such a device yourself. For instance, I've laminated an alu stay from the hardwear store between two layers of foam pad, which results in a very useable product at a total cost of perhaps 10 dollars. The dimensions can be tailored to suit.

You mind taking a photo of that laminated stay and sharing it with us? How much does it weigh? Thanks Dave.

They don't look like much, just two layers of various sorts of foam (glued with contact cement). The blue CCF from Walmart is cheap and sturdy. I've made several different ones for various packs and projects. Weights vary from 4 to 10 oz based on dimensions, thickness of the foam, and size of the stays.

I'll add this....I went to check out the new Jam's, and I'm not sure I'd want to carry anything over 20# with those shoulder straps.

Dave,

I was just hoping to get a look at how you shaped them. That's all.

This is a framesheet/stay combo I've been using in the Mountain Hardwear Thruway. 24" tall, 10" wide at the top, perhaps 11.5" at the bottom. Full 1" thick foam with a fairly large stay in the middle (can't recall the exact dimensions). 11 oz, but very supportive. The ends of the foam come together in the middle, and are covered by duct tape. After the cement cures I cut them down to size, then bend the stay to shape over my knee. Integrating a doubled or tripled packcloth pocket over each end of the stay is crucial to keep in from wearing through the foam.



Jam hipbelt modified with a 3/4" alu buckle from a Sea to Summit strap. I just did this today, but have used the other from the pair on another pack long enough to be confident it will do the job. Gives a greater range of easier adjustment and is easier to use. Saves a small amount of weight over the 1.5" plastic job.

Dave, just what I was looking for. I bet a few others were too. Thanks again.

Did you use a piece of wide flat aluminum between two pieces of blue foam?

Warren, I usually just use a aluminum stay from the hardware store. The one in the example pictured is something like 20mm wide by 3mm thick.

The belt mod above works well. I did find it slipped a hair weekend before last when I had the pack jammed full with 30+ pounds of rafting and skiing stuff. I added a bead of aquaseal to both sides of the webbing, which sorted that out nicely.

The other issue I discovered, which is seriously annoying, is that the top strap is just barely long enough to clip when the pack is totally full. No ability to (for instance) strap a foam mat on top when the pack is near or at capacity. I'll fix this when I get some more 1/2" webbing, but IMO a big oversight on Golite's part.

Curious to see what exactly the foam framesheet was doing for me, I pulled it out. Previously I was folding my BA insulated Air Core in thirds widthwise (two chambers wide) and then in quarter lengthwise and sliding it into the hydration sleeve to supplement the back. Turns out that folded the same way, it fits into the framesheet sleeve perfectly. I took it on a morning hike loaded with about 24-25 pounds to see what it felt like compared to the break-in hikes I did with the framesheet installed.

Long story short: I couldn't really tell a difference. I'm sure it could get pretty uncomfortable if carelessly packed, or heavy enough to sag and buckle the folded mat, but I doubt it's any worse than other UL frameless packs, especially those that don't have the 3D mesh panel for padding. My frame sheet weighed 72g on my scale, add that to the long straps that got trimmed short and a few pieces removed, my Jam has lost 4.2 ounces from the day I brought it home.

I'm not convinced it'll stay like that, but it was a neat proof-of-concept for the summer trips where I'm cutting every ounce possible from an average 12 lb base wt.

I might think about trimming the factory one down and gluing a spar to it for heavy loads.

Has anyone picked up a Jam 35? I know there were a lot of complaints about the rolltop being quite short on the original Peak and I was wondering if this may have changed with the Jam 35.

Some posts on earlier versions of the JAM said that the sizing is out by one size. I've got an 18.2 to 18.5" back length. Anybody know if the medium will fit well? My other packs seem to sit a little low so likely I would be 18.5 or slightly more.

p.s. I was just looking for a way to attach bear spray to a strap or the belt. I have used bungee on the straps, and stabilizer straps in the past, but don't see a nice way on this pack. What do other people do?

Edited by Billman on 04/25/2012 15:50:15 MDT.

New Jam35L Rolltop ==>7.5"

Nils, as you can see from the first photo in the thread the effective torso length (middle of belt to inner shoulder strap attachments) is 18.5" on the large. This is the same sizing as last year. Whether a medium or large will suit you will depend on your personal perference, but it sounds like a large might be a better bet. The new load lifters will compensate for a shorter torso length to a certain extent, and some folks prefer the greater shoulder wrap which comes with that sort of fit.

Just to throw other options out there, I have the 2011 Jam and recently switched out the foam framesheet that came with it to use the GG SitLight Sit Pad. It has better stiffness and is more comfortable overall than the provided foam pad.

Second modification is I will be removing the large exterior zip pocket and using a MYOG Noseeum mesh pocket. Much more functional than the zipped pocket which is harder to use when the Jam is full and MYOG mesh pocket is much lighter.

I will post more on that modification when I am done.

David, Thanks very much for the advice. Large sounds right. I started reducing my load last year but this will be my first frameless pack. I am looking at is as "learning" pack, so I want to take the BPL advice of straps either at or just above the shoulder, and then see if the load lifters can be removed. I use a Neoair but intend to play with different pad support configurations and want to try the pack lightening described by others (thanks to everyone on BPL). At $80 on sale doesn't look like there is much to compare.

Just a quick adder re: the hip belt sizing on the Large Jam 50...

I just picked one up a week or two ago from the GoLite store. I wear a 34" waist pant (on a good day), and I found on my first overnight with the pack that I could tighten the hip belt all the way to the hip pockets at certain times. I'm not sure if I wear the pack higher than my actual hips like the OP, but I was certainly surprised. I'd say it's *just* enough girth for me, but scary close.

>>Just a quick adder re: the hip belt sizing on the Large Jam 50...

I just picked one up a week or two ago from the GoLite store. I wear a 34" waist pant (on a good day), and I found on my first overnight with the pack that I could tighten the hip belt all the way to the hip pockets at certain times. I'm not sure if I wear the pack higher than my actual hips like the OP, but I was certainly surprised. I'd say it's *just* enough girth for me, but scary close.



What a pity. Taking a 32" waist means I won't be upgrading any more. I have owned 5 frameless Golite packs in size L. Original Jam, Pinnacle, 2009Jam , (Peak briefly - rubbish hip belt!) and Ion. all fitted ok. No longer it seems. Bah.

Edited by MoleJ on 07/11/2012 09:41:54 MDT.

J Mole,
I tried to send you a PM but you have not set up an email address at which to receive them. I was wondering if you would consider selling the Jam 50 that by the sounds of it, is not an ideal fit. I have been looking for a used large Golite Jam 50 w/ hipbelt pockets but so far have been coming up empty. Please feel free to contact me at tlglynn@yahoo.com if you see this.

Thanks