After reading German Hiker’s post and thread was I started to think if there was a waterproof jacket out there that might be much more durable? I think Paramo or its type would be good for in the winter weather but what about for above freezing? Something that would last day in and day out for a year or two and would be able to take the pack wear also?

Well the one very obvious trade off that there is is the non trivial trade one of weight vs durability when selecting face fabrics. Event say seems to go from at least 172g/m2 (some of Crux's stuff etc) to 89g/m2 (the lightest thing that Montane seem to use.).

What I'm not sure is if its the face fabric which normally causes coats to fail. Well yes it happens with very light coats, but then you tend to try not to wear those so much.

Loads of questions of course: What sort of time scale do the membranes/general construction fail on? Are there (major) real world durability differences within three layer membranes? How much worse are 2.5 things? How destructive is putting these things in your pack rolled up? etc etc.

I don't have a clue about most of those :)

I don't either. It would be nice if there was a fabric that was just naturally waterproof that breathed a bit. Probably have to end up with some sort durable solid plastic.

Arc'Teryx Alpha LT at around 10 ounces.

Brett, I had thought of a Paramo jacket myself, but keep in mind that it has to be re-waterproofed every 6 weeks or so which makes it useless for continuous use like mine.

I thought for Paramo that if you didn't reproof the outside would just get wet but you would stay dry inside.

Edited by bpeugh on 02/18/2012 08:08:55 MST.

Is paramo just a synthetic (I assume, can't find and mention of the actual types of material used) version of Ventile/Etaproof jackets?

As for the Alpha LT, my medium is just around 12.6oz, not 10 as someone mentioned. However I still recommend it, definitely bomber material and dead bird takes the time to test their face fabrics.

There's actually a very good article on the main site here explaining it. Its a windproofed outer with a sort of very fancy reversed fleece liner. The windproofed outer slows the rain down while the liner resists the rest via capillary action.

But you do certainly need to keep it properly proofed - if the liner isn't proofed then it'll just absorb the water which clearly isn't what you want :)

And thanks for the info about the Alpha but $400-500 is a bit much to pay for a rain jacket for me. Probably is not long enough anyways.

The Alpha LT is cut to hip length so it should be long enough no problem. Of course the price tag is definitely painful. Just for the record I paid nowhere near that, found a good deal on a new without tags sale on geartrade =P

I've never bought any dead bird stuff at retail, but if I had income instead of tuition I wouldn't mind as much since they do make outstanding quality products, just not quite light enough often =/

I, too, would look first at Arc'Teryx for something here. Their gear is overbuilt and overdesigned.

GoreTex Pro Shell is especially durable. Of course, you'll have to pay for any piece made of this.

Wild Things just released a shell. It's eVent with hybrid construction (burly fabric in high-wear areas). They make stuff for the military, all-USA made with premium construction.

Ski shells are designed for lots of abrasion. Maybe look there?

I do have a Westcomb Cruiser and Specter I was going to send back to REI but maybe I will keep the Cruiser, They were on a good sale.

But how does 3 layer eVent compare to Gore-Tex Pro Shell?

My flagship model Montbell Storm Cruiser set uses Gore-Tex Pro Shell. Supposedly ideal for extended wear in our Japan Summer typhoon/deluge season. When I have worn it over the last 2 seasons I have never felt unusually wet/damp inside but perhaps it is because I seem to have my layering/regulating system dialed in. And I did notice that anything kept zipped up in the hand pockets got wet/damp so obviously the membrane is doing its job.

I don't think any waterproof shell with any breathability will last years of high frequency use.

You got 3 main techniques to last years

1) use an umbrella, cheap and very breathable, there are quite some tough ones out there, you can repair with some tape and a bit of wire.

2) use windproofs and your own body heat to keep light damp out

3) the actual waterproof you have kept in your pack for those situations 1+2 above won't apply (too windy, need both hands, too heavy rain).

4) Ponchos are not breathable don't need to be as as they basically are wearable umbrellas and as the fabric can be thicker, will last a long time.

Note the above are all old-tech and relatively cheap, is that why they are not sought-after?

Paramo - it can be cleaned using clean water and Techwash, you don't need to reproof it (TXDirect) as often as you need to Techwash. I hand-wash mine wearing plastic gloves, you certainly can do on a long outing with a suitable container, and if you don't to use Techwash then soap flakes like for washing children's clothes is just as good and lighter to carry a few flakes.

Gore's Pro Shell is more durable than eVent.

Face fabric and construction, however, are going to be just as (if not more) important.

I already have a good poncho/tarp and am looking at getting the Chrome Dome with a windshirt for the light stuff.

I use the venture jacket from the north face medium weights 12 oz. I've done a lot backpacking, climbing 14ers, and everyday use with it and put it through a lot of abuse and it still is in great shape 5 years later. When I bought it i had limited choices but it ended up being a suprisingly great jacket.

I was wondering if someone could compare the Westcomb Cruiser LT Jacket to the Arc'Teryx Alpha LT as there is nothing with Goretex Pro Shell within 2 hours of where I live. Thanks.