Heck yes, I carry the phone. It's turned off, but it will grab signal from most places I go including the High Sierra. I can text message family, or families as the case may be, turn on the GPS if I need it to calibrate my on-screen maps and/or make an emergency phone call were an emergency to arise.

As a responsible person, responsible for others, I avail myself of the technology reasonable available for the tasks at hand. If that weighs a few ounces, well, that's part of the game.

Sadly, although the waterproof, shock-resistant, heat/cold resistant phone is pretty badass (oh, and I carved it out of tofu made from pinewood deadfall), the camera is lousy.

@ Art:

99.9999% is my way of saying that 'back then', basically nobody carried cell phones. 99.999% is my way of saying the overwhelming majority. And if you think about the millions of hikers at any given weekend, the overwhelming majority makes it home safely, time after time.

And to sum up my two points:

1. Bringing or not bringing stuff in and of itself won't connect or disconnect one from nature. It's mostly in our mind, and not in the thing itself. This is the point we agree on.

2. My second point is more cautionary. Our "needs and wants" are often expanded by new-fangled technology or gadgets. Those who strive for simplicity need to be aware of this. Marketing can create / expand "holes" in our desires. The cell phone is one such. Some of us here would feel downright naked leaving the house without one! What next?

Not saying people should or shouldn't carry cell phones - but focusing on how we shouldn't passively let "marketing" exploit our desires and fears too, too much -- regardless of whatever it is they are selling.

Edited by ben2world on 02/16/2012 10:56:22 MST.

Leslie,

On my multi-day trips I measure enjoyment in inverse proportion to the number of people I met. That is, the fewer people the better the trip. Sometimes I can go several days and never see another person, other than when close to the trail head.

When I do see others, it is usually more than one person hiking together. Occasionally I might see a guy hiking alone, and on truly rare occasions I will met a lady hiking alone. I am not one to strike up a conversation, but I have a few ladies stop to chat. I am not an intimidating figure, so perhaps my appearance does not frighten others. One thing about the ladies I have talked to in the back-country, is they seem to be confident and competent. Probably the result of plenty of experience, which might have taught them there is little to be afraid of in the wilderness.

However, hiking alone near roads might not be as safe as you mentioned earlier. There is only one time that I can recall where I did not feel entirely safe. My wife and I were hiking near a trail head a few years ago and ran into a couple of hunters. It was out of season, in the middle of the day, and they were obviously intoxicated. Nothing bad happened, but it was somewhat unnerving.

I probably did not express myself well in my first post in this thread, seems only Tom understood I meant.

And my only intention is for people to consider alternate approaches to backpacking if they make sense to you, not to accept how I operate as some sort of dogma. Do your own thing. And perhaps you may want to consider alternatives to how you presently operate. In the end, it is your trip, and only you can determine what you seek out of each trip and what you need to take with you. Each person determines what they want and what works for them.

Originally I said, "The less of "man" you bring with you, the more you can appreciate the wilderness." The thought is about less connectivity to our man-made world, the better. It is not about gear per se, but breaking the umbilical cord that can keep us connected the world we live in most of the time, versus what we can do when we are in wild places. To me that especially means cell phone towers, satellites, books and music.

I have a cell phone; an iPhone to be exact. I have also owned a couple Palm phones and a couple Blackberrys. And I maximize their features when operating in the man-made world. I am tethered to email, VPN, and often use the iPhone as a hot spot when I need to send documents via email from my laptop. My phone syncs with my corporate GroupWise, which is not an easy thing to do. My iPhone has 8.4GB of music, 2.3GB of photos, and numerous Kindle books. I bank with my phone, purchase things online with it. I can buy presents for my family and ship them to their homes with my phone. When traveling I load my itinerary, and even use it as an electronic boarding pass at airports equipped to handle it. I sometimes access and post on BPL with it. I have a program called Topo Maps on it. When traveling I use it to quickly find stores and restaurants near me. I sometimes use it as a GPS when traveling in a rental car. It makes me more efficient when operating in the man-world. I have taken it on a few backpacking trips, as an experiment, as I am not opposed to technology. But now it always stays in my vehicle at the trail head.

My wife (and previously my ex-wife) is used to me backpacking alone. She knows there probably is no cell phone reception where I go, and knows I will call when I get back to my vehicle and within cell phone coverage. She knows I am not going to take the phone with me on the trail. She knows when I am due back, where I have gone, and who to contact if I do not check in; which has never happened. That is being responsible.

Dedicated GPS. There is nothing wrong with them. Actually I probably used one before most BPL members, purchasing one of the early Magellan units in the 90s. I have owned two Garmins, an eTrex Legend C and an eTrex Vista HCx. Both Garmins were gifts, not something I asked for. But I know how to use them. I gave away the Magellan and Legend C. Sometimes I bring the Vista on winter snow trips, where snow makes it more difficult to see the geographic lay of the land, and white-out conditions make navigation more difficult. But I have never been truly lost (maybe off course and knew it), and can navigate with map and compass in any condition; something I learned to do in the military... where we often navigated with poor maps, at night, under the cover of forest or jungle. So the GPS is not necessary for me. Actually it is more of a toy to play with at night, when I should be doing more important things like watching for shooting stars, admiring Orion, or just general mind wandering. I would much rather have a 7.5 quad map and compass, than an itty bitty GPS screen where it is nearly impossible to see a larger area in detail. I don't want to bring back-up navigation, it is extra weight. And I don't like the idea of connectivity to the man-made world, via satellite. But that does not mean what I do it is better. Just works for me.

Books. For several years I carried a copy of "Abbey's Road" in my pack. Never got past the first chapter. I finally realized I really did not want to hear Ed's voice on my trips. Eventually I took it out of the pack, and read it at home. Over the years I have collected a few Field Guides, mostly as gifts. Took a few on trips, which became a burden and extra weight... trying to figure out the names/identity of some of the birds, plants, shrubs and trees I could not identify. Why not just admire it and move on? One can always look it up when back at home, if it is that important.

Music. I love music. I have an extensive collection. But in the wilderness I don't want Bach, Beethoven, Berlioz, the Beatles, et al mucking up my solitude.

Cameras. A double edged sword. When I was young, I was into photography. Even had a dark room and made extra money selling pictures. But in those days my cameras where heavy. A medium format TLR and a SLR with several lenses. Because of the cost of pictures using film, I spent too much time composing each picture. And picture taking became a burden, sucking up valuable time and my limited mental resources. So I started leaving them at home after only a couple of trips with each. In the 80's I bought a small compact camera for backpacking trips, but ended up never taking it with me. Just another complication in life when on the trail. So for most of 40 years I have no pictures, only memories. But who would I have shared them with? Did I really want to share anyway? At one time I started taking a journal with me, but I found that I didn't want to set aside precious time to record my thoughts, observations, travels; time better spent gazing at the patterns and eddys in a stream for hours, watching clouds navigate the sky, or even an afternoon monitoring the travels of ants and their anthill home; much more productive endeavors. The journal became extra weight. In hindsight, sometimes I wish I had pictures or a journal; but there is some satisfaction that I was not encumbered with them on my hikes. Today, I sometimes take a camera. Usually it is to write a story for my kids. If you have read some of my trips reports, they are usually linked to Google Documents and are written for my kids. Or I copied and pasted into a thread from the story I wrote beforehand.

Binoculars. I have never seen them on a BPL gear list. I wonder why. I used to take one all the time. Too me it is technology that can enhance a trip. At the end of the day, sitting on a large rock looking out at distance things, bringing them close... and finding things that just beg for a side trip to go visit. So this year I have started to include binoculars in my kit again, I can't remember why I quit taking them. It is technology, but it does not connect you the man-made world, it is the opposite... at least for me.

People. I stand by my earlier comments.

All in One -- the Smart Phone. My iPhone weighs exactly the same as my camera. But it does so much more... sort of. 3 MP versus 10 MP for my camera. Zoom of inferior quality. Topo Map app is much inferior for me versus map and compass. I don't need or want all the other stuff. For me it is a distraction, and worrying about battery life is extra weight on my brain. Just knowing it might be able to connect to a cell tower is annoying. The few times I have used it, it was my only navigation, my camera, and my watch. It just made me more disorganized and disoriented. Also it was not as rugged as my compass, my map, or my camera and I was constantly worried about breaking it and protecting it from the elements. Another heavy burden. Now if I were to do a thru-hike of a major trail, I might consider utilizing one. But I am not thrilled about doing a thru-hike. Too much connectivity to the man-world. But a thru-hike is on my bucket list, although it languishes at the basement of things to do. In my life I have done two major hikes, each about 6 months long. The wonderful thing about these hikes was that they had no defined destination, no advanced route planning, no defined timeline, very little human connectivity, and no one expected me back at any particular time and place. They only knew I was somewhere in the Sierras, and I would probably return home at some point in time. I highly recommend this type of trip. Not a responsible method if you have a spouse, significant other, or children at home. But they are the highlight trips of my life.

So this a long, rambling dissertation about how I like to hike. If it is of interest to you, great. If not, that is fine. Go out and do your thing. There is no right way, and no wrong way... other than you need to know how to take care of yourself and have a good time doing it.

+1 on binoculars. Some great 8x20s can be had at under eight ounces, though I prefer my heavier 8x33 because I can look through them for hours without the slightest bit of fatigue and they're bright enough for stargazing.

I have an old pair of Nikon 7X20 7.1 degree which works fine for me. Light under 8oz, and they have held up to many backpacking trips. I have some more expensive Nikon 8X43, but too heavy for backpacking.

I can't argue that people didn't carry cellphones "back then." Let's just say that I would be very cautious to accept uncited statistics about how safe people were "back then" compared to today because everybody, me included, has a tendency of looking at the past under the rose-tinted lenses of nostalgia. Additionally, even if there are more injuries or deaths in the backcountry today, does that mean that more people (i.e. a higher percentage) are getting hurt, or does it simply mean that more people overall (i.e. the same percentage of a larger number) are going into the backcountry? Are these kinds of injuries simply reported in the news more often now than they were in the past? We would have to do the research to know. Until then, I remain skeptical.

@ Art said,

I can't argue that people didn't carry cellphones "back then." Let's just say that I would be very cautious to accept uncited statistics about how safe people were "back then"

------

Agree. Also, are people more reliant on phones and GPS and entering the backcountry without the additional set of skills and knowledge, assuming the technology will save them in a bad situation. We cannot measure any of this.

Will a phone or GPS save your life? Yes, in some situations it might. Do I use them? No, acceptable risk for me.

Will a snake bite kit save my life? Don't know, quit carrying one a long time ago. Acceptable risk for me to travel without it, and maybe it would make things worse.

Does my 1oz first aid kit put me at risk? I don't think so, I have other skills and knowledge I would need to rely on. Acceptable risk for me.

For everyone, YMMV.

"Will a phone or GPS save your life? Yes, in some situations it might."

Several years ago there was some climber up around the summit of Mount Shasta, and he began his long descent on the north side. Then he slipped and fell a long distance, and was injured and unable to move. Well, that is a place to die.

For some bizarre reason, he had a cell phone with him, even though in those days there was virtually no cell service on that side of the mountain. So, he dialed 911, and his call was answered by some emergency dispatcher in Klamath Falls, OR. That's a long way for a cell phone. The dispatcher could barely believe that the caller was way south at Mount Shasta, but then everybody flew into action, literally. The Oregon people had no jurisdiction into California, so they contacted the Forest Service with jurisdiction over the mountain. The Forest Service had wilderness rangers, but nobody that could respond, on foot, to that remote side of the mountain. They quickly asked around, and shortly later, one of their rangers (Dan T.) was boarding a military Blackhawk helicopter for the ride. He was dropped near the injured party, and eventually everybody was rescued.

The moral is that even though there probably won't be any cell service in these remote places, it doesn't hurt too much to try, especially in a life-threatening situation.

--B.G.--

That fellow on Mt. Shasta might have had more gamble and luck in the equation than we do now, but he sure got the concept of "Be Prepared".

That's it for me: I don't play with the phone or use it, but I was sure happy to test it out last year when pre-hiking a route I'll take two patrols on this August. Kinda shocking, but cool, to realize I'll have cell service on the San Joaquin River and PCT.

Hey wait, the other moral of the story is that Verizon really is freaking everywhere. I need a tinfoil hat. Uh, is tinfoil even sold anymore? Let me check on my smart phone.

@ Art:

You have completely missed the two points I was trying to make.

ironic how the more sheltered your life, the more you have to prove yourself on the weekend.

Or you just like getting out and having fun. That could be the reason people do things like backpacking, climbing, ect.

You're probably different though aren't you Tony?

I get out to have fun, not to prove my virility or how much more of a tough guy I am compared to someone else. Got nothing to prove.

no signal where I hike (in Montana even much of interstate lacks a dam(n) signal!!!!), so it's dead weight- if I knew there was a signal I'd bring it, not for texting :) but it would well be worth it's weight if there were an emergency, mine or someone's else

when working, I do bring a sat phone- if they weren't so expensive I'd own one of my own

"I get out to have fun, not to prove my virility or how much more of a tough guy I am compared to someone else. Got nothing to prove."

It's just walking.

Tony lastname wrote:
"ironic how the more sheltered your life, the more you have to prove yourself on the weekend."

What's worse is that people are actually interacting with computers in the first place. This is supposed to be a community of hikers, right? Every non hiking activity you undertake should be a strike against you. Trying to have a reasonable discussion on an online message board that you went out of your way to find and make an account on? Try again, Roger! Talking is not hiking. Neither is being online. And you can bet that talking online isn't going to win you any prizes. You lost before you even started!! Hahaha!

Schmuck.

http://heraldnet.com/article/20120215/NEWS01/702159884

full story at link ...




The microwave oven-sized chunk of rock gave way.

Then, Miles Mcdonough remembers falling.

The Seattle man, then 29, landed 70 feet below from where he'd been climbing on the north face of Mount Stuart in Chelan County.

.....

The impact of the fall tore off Mcdonough's climbing pack of survival gear, including spare clothing, gloves, water, and first-aid kit. His climbing rope was mangled, but it kept him from plunging down the mountain.

Hoffmann lowered his own pack and emergency equipment to his friend. Then he headed off solo, without a rope.

"There weren't many options," Hoffmann said. "Miles needed the gear before I did, so my job was to get out before the gear was needed."

It took nearly five hours to get down and find a cell phone to call 911.


.....


Mcdonough wants to share his story so people can learn from his ordeal, he said. He and Hoffmann both have committed to always carrying emergency beacons with them when they go into backcountry. The devices can emit a distress signal and notify rescue crews of an exact location if a trip goes awry. That could have speeded rescue in this case.

Nothing angers me more than being 3 days into a hike and someone pulls out a cell phone and makes a call. The whole reason I BP is to get away from the world, not to bring it into the backcountry with me.

No way that I bring a phone on a hiking trip (if it is not any more than say 4 nights). I usually use hiking and the trip in general to get away from the business that the world throws at me on a daily basis. If you are going to hike to get away then dont bring the outside world with you.

My disclaimer to this would be if you are hiking a very significant distance and length of time. I would not even think about hiking (especially alone) for more than about 4-5 days without something to fall back on if something happened. My phone would be in my pack but would be off until needed.

Kingmachine7911

http://gahammockbros.blogspot.com/