I am totally new to alcohol stoves (I have read plenty here at BPL). I recently picked up a Caldera set; a cone, a Ti pot, an alcohol stove (Dr. Pepper) and this??? (in the picture below) This is my first alcohol stove setup. Is this some kind of esbit holder adapter? For the record here is what I plan to bring on the average 3 season 2-4 day trip for 2 persons boiling roughly 32oz/day. If I know I will have fire, I just bring the SP1400 no stove. So where do I buy the fuel for my new Caldera? Seems like saving 3.5oz is worth the switch.

My old setup (SP Ti 1400, SP litemax, small SP butane) = 15.5oz

New Caldera system (cone, Ti .7L pot, stove, 8oz fuel) = 12 oz

That looks like an Esbit burning platform. It elevates the Esbit cube slightly, and it allows air to flow better up to the burning cube.

I made one out of a steel cap to a beverage bottle. I just punched some air holes in it.

--B.G.--

Hi Bob: You're familiar with the caldera system. I'm doing the math here and this is what I've come up with:
--for five days my 8oz. fuel canister and three oz. pocket rocket=11 oz. I'm confident in these numbers.
--a ti-tri wood burning system (I'm in the Sierra and feel confident in finding wood--yes?)=...I'm not sure; it's hard to find specs; I'm guessing 7 0z.'s--with no esbit or alcohol fuel back-up. And how wise is that?

SO: Unless I'm going out for more than eight days, the weight savings for a caldera wood burning system are minimal. Right? This is an actual, not a rhetorical question.
But for eight days or more, the weight savings go up. Throw in a couple of esbits and I'm good to go...???

oh yeah I'm a solo backpacker using boil-only meals (oatmeal and freeze dried dinners) no simmering etc.

Edited by book on 02/09/2012 20:04:22 MST.

To the OP:
That's interesting, did you order yours from trail designs? That must be a new esbit platform from them if so.


To Jeffery:
My wood burning ti-tri weighs only 3.25oz(cone, part of the inferno add on, and the floor plate) if I use the same stakes as my shelter. Don't take that stupid caldera caddy it weighs 2.5oz alone. You can always roll it up in your closed cell foam mat for no weight penalty.

Edited by pdcolelli42 on 02/09/2012 20:11:13 MST.

Jeffrey, part of the reason that you don't find hard numbers for the Ti-Tri is because each one is a slightly different size and weight, mostly because each cook pot is different.

Mine is 1.6 ounces, just for the titanium cone. That proves in rapidly.

I do not carry mine much unless I know that wood fires are legal where I am going, and in lots of places that I go, either they are not legal or else there simply isn't much wood.

I often carry just the Esbit parts. Sometimes just my butane Gnat parts. Every trip is different.

--B.G.--

Hey Bob, I was always under the impression that if you use the floor plate (leave no trace) that it was ok to use this stove in places where fires are restricted. It isn't really any less safe than an alcohol stove or canister stove. If either of those tipped over it could be more dangerous than a wood fire in a caldera cone. Maybe someone can shed some light on the matter because I thought I heard something like this elsewhere, could be wrong though.

Edited by pdcolelli42 on 02/09/2012 20:27:36 MST.

"I was always under the impression that if you use the floor plate (leave no trace) that it was ok to use this stove in places where fires are restricted. It isn't really any less safe than an alcohol stove or canister stove."

Different jurisdictions have different rules, and different rangers have different interpretations of the rules. In some places, when they say "no wood fires," it means that literally. In some places, they make it clearer when they say "no campfires." That would seem to allow a self-contained wood stove.

In some of the national parks, they will have an elevation limit like 9600 feet or 10,400 feet. No wood fires above there. That is because there is virtually no wood available up there, and what little there is needs to disintegrate into the soil. In fact, in one national park, they patrol pretty heavy around one area that is just barely too high for wood fires, and it is an obvious thing to catch 'em redhanded.

I'm not saying that stealth camping hasn't been tried there.

--B.G.--

Thank you for the detailed explanation Bob. That makes perfect sense as to why they would not allow any type of fire. I guess I wont have to worry about that for at least another year as I will be sticking to these much lower elevation Appalachians till I conquer them. Then maybe I'll head out west.

Edited by pdcolelli42 on 02/09/2012 20:51:06 MST.

I bought the set from another BPL member. He stated the Caldera set was somewhat old, from when it first started to come with the Ti mug. The little piece (esbit rack?) came with it but I never asked him what it was. I can see that the alcohol method starts saving weight when you are going long distances, so I will have to experiment with the weight saving for my particular use (under 7 days, 2-3 people). At least the alcohol gets used up and you don't have to carry around an empty or partial empty (heavy)canister on the way back with my old method. It seems like we always carried too much fuel anyways (I have about 8 half full canisters of fuel in my garage) so I thought I would give another method a shot. I'll have to get some esbits and alcohol and set up a test to what this thing can do. Thanks for your responses.

Phillip: wow, 3.25 oz. for the caldera cone, "part" of the inferno (perhaps you can detail "part"?) and the floor plate. Very seductive numbers. I carry the REI small Ti-ware pot, which seems to go well with the caldera and inferno.
Here's the deal: for me, a pocket rocket and canister is simple and reliable. The caldera is new and unfamiliar. Many posters imply that the caldera's wood burning option--which is the main selling point for me--has a variety of drawbacks. It's also beautifully lightweight. Hmmm.
I can picture myself snapping off dry twigs for the last quarter mile into camp.But having to bring backup fuel for altitude camping sort of defeats the purpose...again, the pocket rocket is simple and reliable.
This is my back and forth.

Jeffery,

The part of the inferno add-on I'm referring to is just the inverted cone part only. While out in the woods one time I lost the hardware cloth ring part that lifts the circular honey comb looking part off the floor plate. Upon arriving home I figured Id try out the inferno without those two parts and to me it seemed to work just as well. Needless to say I don't take either of those parts anymore. Also leave the stakes at home and use the ones from your shelter instead. Finally as I stated before don't use the caldera caddy. I roll my stove parts in my closed cell foam pad but alternatively you can do a MYOG soda bottle caddy for <1oz if you like. I always used to carry the alcohol stove and 2oz of fuel as backup but I quit taking it as well because I never have too much trouble starting a fire. I think on my thru I'll probably take the alcohol stove and maybe 1oz of fuel. At least I'll start with it anyway.

I wonder what problems other users may be having with the ti-tri in wood burning mode. Maybe trouble starting a fire? As with any ultralight gear though you must learn how to use it. I believe that if I perfect my fire building skills this piece of gear will treat me well. The inferno add-on IMHO is really worth it too. It makes it burn much cleaner when hot and I think it makes a better fire in cold/wet conditions.

You're exactly on point with the collecting of "twigs" on the way to camp too. I think I'm going to have a zip-lock or dedicated cuben stuff sack for exactly this. Don't forget tinder too!

One final note I'd like to add. My friend Sam Ridge and I one night did a very rough test of boil times with his alcohol stove (I'd consider it as good as any design) vs my titanium pot over an open fire (already burning though) and the times were very close. One day we'll have to sit down and time the two.

Edited by pdcolelli42 on 02/10/2012 06:18:54 MST.

Whadda ya do when it rains and you are using your stove with the tent stakes? I can see in good weather, your shelter laying half erected, but in a rain, seems might be wet unless you have another tarp to put over you, then you still have to worry about puddling and that water entering your shelter, gettin gear wet. Fill me in.
Duane

I purchased my Ti-Tri Caldera about two years ago. First, I tested it outside my own front door, just to make sure I knew the basics of assembly. Then in April I took it on a snow camping trip. We skied in several miles and set up camp with one flat boulder to use as the kitchen floor. The problem was that several feet of snow covered most of the ground, so there wasn't much in the way of wood available. After scouting around, I was able to find twigs, but they were rather damp from the snow. I managed to get a fire going, but with all of that moisture in the twigs, it was not a very hot fire, so I was not able to boil very much with it. It left a thick black sticky coating on the cook pot.

After an hour of futzing around with it, we pulled out the proper white gas stove.

In a drier area, it works fine.

--B.G.--

I'll limit my comments to the first post in this thread....

What you are seeing in the picture....the upside down "U" shaped grate.....was the original esbit stand that was offered. We released it 04/29/06 and almost immediately pulled it on 05/26/06. The fact that you actually have one of the very few that made it to market in the less than a month it was out there is kinda remarkable. The Gram Cracker we sell now is much superior.

Rand

Carry extra stakes? Maybe a couple dedicated for the CC?

Or, say your shelter takes 6 stakes and that's all you brought along- if you have a proper knife (an x-acto blade insert w/o a handle isn't proper) you could whittle up a couple of temporary wood stakes to fill in for the ti jobs you need for the cc...

Get creative... If you don't like it, carry a canister stove... There's an direct inverse relationship between fiddle factor and money spent.

BM

"Whadda ya do when it rains"

Well, I generally have extra stakes that are not needed to pitch the tarp but are needed in windier conditions to help stabilize it and take the load off other tie outs. So I would use those stakes. Alternatively my tarp is a poncho as well so I'll just wear it rather than erect it and be careful not to catch myself on fire. Or you could just not cook... I'll have plenty of other food to eat instead.

I just got a chance to fire up my new Caldera Cone system and I was impressed. Here are the results (might I add that it was 60 F, in my backyard, on foil in my BBQ, elevation 1700 ft)
Amount of denatured alcohol used- 30ml (2 Tbs) (wt. 0.75oz)
Amount of water boiled- 16 oz.
Time to boil- 5:00 on the dot
Time to solid rumble- 6:30
Solid rumble ended at 11:45 (fire out)

I never have actually used the alcohol stove that came with my ti-tri yet but I have been curious as to how it would perform. That is a pretty decent boil time for a hair over 1oz of fuel. I don't know a whole lot about alcohol stoves, however I've made a few pressurized ones that somehow managed to make the steel can I used as an integrated wind screen glow red hot. I sort of expected a little less alcohol though to be honest. I'm curious to see if the trend continued over more uses. Sigh, maybe I actually should test the alcohol stove.

Phillip, try doing all of your home cooking over an alcohol stove for a few days, and then report back here. I'm happy with the 12-10 stove.

--B.G.--

Ehh, I'd really rather not. I don't plan to be using one much on the trail and I'll probably throw it away or send it home after the first week or so if I don't use it. I feel like it would be rather inconvenient to cook with an alcohol stove for much besides boiling water. Maybe with some sort of flame snuffer to control it(yes I know these exist). I really kind of prefer burning wood. To each his own though.