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2012 Murmurs back at Gossamer Gear
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Greg F
(GregF) - F

Locale: Canadian Rockies
USPS or I dont buy on 02/09/2012 19:19:51 MST Print View

Being in canada if a company doesnt ship USPS I dont buy from them. Between poor delivery center locations and ridiculos brokerage fees the couriers dont see my money.

Dan, when I ship within Canada i just put it in an 8.5 x 11 evelope and put two stamps on it and dont ask the post office if its okay. I have never had anything sent back when i have done that.

Glen Van Peski
(gvanpeski) - F - M

Locale: San Diego
Re: 2012 Murmurs back at Gossamer Gear on 02/10/2012 09:14:29 MST Print View

Thanks to everyone for sharing your thoughts on shipping costs. Not sure it will change anyone's mind, but just as a point of reference, Gossamer Gear spent $4,611 more on shipping than we charged for shipping last year. I know this is no consolation if you are a customer who ended up on the wrong side of that average. We ship many large value orders, and feel that insurance is an important protection in case something gets damaged in transit. The tracking not only protects us against unscrupulous customers, who aren't on this forum, but more importantly, allows us to respond to customer inquiries about the location of their package. Probably most readers of this forum understand dimensional charges, but things that are bulky but light incur shipping charges based on the package dimensions, not on the weight. Gossamer Gear loses money on every pad we ship for this reason.

I don't mention these data to answer everyone's comments. There's some good input here, and based on this, we will be revisiting our shipping policy in the near future. Thanks for being open and honest, we value that.

Edited by gvanpeski on 02/10/2012 09:52:59 MST.

Thom Darrah
(thomdarrah) - MLife

Locale: Southern Oregon
2012 Murmurs back at Gossamer Gear on 02/10/2012 09:36:49 MST Print View

Insightful and well stated, thanks.

James Marco
(jamesdmarco) - MLife

Locale: Finger Lakes
Re: Re: 2012 Murmurs back at Gossamer Gear on 02/10/2012 10:39:36 MST Print View

Thanks, Glen.

I assumed it was something along those lines. It might help if you had an option on ordering to opt out of the insurance and tracking for smaller purchases. Frankly, I know that shipping is often a major item considered (not counting security) for a lot of smaller items. It seems that most UL or SUL gear is always fairly light. So purchasing a set of mini droppers is probably just not feasable, by itself.

Ankar Sheng
(Whiskyjack) - MLife

Locale: The Canadian Shield
Re: Re: 2012 Murmurs back at Gossamer Gear on 02/10/2012 10:45:28 MST Print View

Some more options for shipping to Canada would be good. Having no choice but express shipping has kept me from buying from a lot of places. I wont pay $50 shipping on something that could be sent via First class for $5-10 unless it was extraordinarily expensive and demanded insurance. I don't need tracking, I'm not in a huge rush to get the parcel and I'm certainly not going to pay an extra $40 to insure a $150 item.

Glen Van Peski
(gvanpeski) - F - M

Locale: San Diego
Re: Re: Re: 2012 Murmurs back at Gossamer Gear on 02/10/2012 11:42:22 MST Print View

We think we can do better, which is why we're looking at it again. We are limited to how fancy we can get on shipping options by our web software, we just don't have the resources of a larger company, and prefer to deploy those resources in different areas than shipping software. But we are taking a look at this, and expect we'll be changing things somewhat.

Glen Van Peski
(gvanpeski) - F - M

Locale: San Diego
Re: Re: Re: 2012 Murmurs back at Gossamer Gear on 02/10/2012 11:50:21 MST Print View

Overseas shipping options are as frustrating to us as they are to customers, believe me. There is so much that is out of our control. A customer may not want to pay $40 for insurance, and I can't say I blame them, but if the package goes missing, they would sure want us to replace it. We've got horror stories like you wouldn't believe. I can't make any promises, but on a case by case basis, you could always contact the shipping department and see about taking on the risk of lost or damaged items yourself in writing...
We feel your pain... living in Canada is kind of like being tall, sometimes it sucks because it limits your choices. We will be taking a look at this.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Re: Re: 2012 Murmurs back at Gossamer Gear on 02/10/2012 12:56:04 MST Print View

This is a difficult area for small companies. They don't have the time or resources to use several different shippers, and USPS flat rate via Priority Mail simplifies the process, especially when you need to build a matrix on a website with many shipping options.

So when you shop, you need to look at the total price. Many companies build part of the shipping into the retail price and offer low or free shipping to make it look like a better deal.

Small items from GG can be expensive when they use their standard shipping method. But I always get my stuff in two days (TX to CA), via priority mail flat rate, which I think they use. Now, go check those companies that offer guaranteed 2 day shipping, the price can go through the roof.

Lastly, a good businessman is going to maintain their gross profit margins... they know what they need to be to get their needed Return on Investment (profit). I see some really inexpensive cottage manufacturers with low prices and low shipping, but the business may not be successful in the long run... they just aren't making any money. GG has been around for quite a while so they must know what they are doing. GVP KNOWS what his shipping cost and receipts are, I bet many small companies could not come up with that number.

Brett Peugh
(bpeugh) - F - M

Locale: Midwest
usps on 02/10/2012 15:23:08 MST Print View

I just bought 2 pairs of Darn Tough socks on sale from a place that uses USPS for shipping. Only cost $3.14 for the shipping. I feel really good about that.

Kevin Lutz
(mtntrailrunner) - F
Look at the big picture. on 02/10/2012 15:25:58 MST Print View

I always look at the total, out-the-door cost of an item before I buy it. If GG charged less for shipping they may charge more for their products. I think the relatively higher shipping that GG charges is a part of their business model. Lots of e-bay sellers operate that way. Besides, "free" shipping is never really free. You knew the total cost of the pack before you pulled the trigger. In the end, does it really matter how much of that total was for shipping?

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Look at the big picture. on 02/10/2012 15:32:28 MST Print View

I live in California, so not all online orders include sales tax. Something else to consider.

Rick M
(rmjapan) - F

Locale: London, UK
whine, whine, whine on 02/10/2012 18:22:18 MST Print View


Edited by rmjapan on 06/19/2015 07:28:48 MDT.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: whine, whine, whine on 02/10/2012 18:31:02 MST Print View

I think the discussion has merits.

$12.10 to ship 10 ounces? Expense aside, what I wish makers/sellers could do better is cut down on unnecessary packaging materials! Not good for anyone -- and certainly not good for the environment!

Case in point: I once ordered a pen refill for my Swiss Army knife from REI. It came in a pretty darn big box. REI filled it with lots and lots of crumpled up paper to use as filler. Buried somewhere inside, was my pen refill, taped to one piece of paper, with a BIG NOTE written, "I'M HERE!! :) ". Could have just taped the pen filler in between two small pieces of cardboard paper and inserted into a small envelop, and just sent via First Class mail.

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: whine, whine, whine on 02/10/2012 18:43:00 MST Print View

I just contacted GG about shipping 8 Lineloc buckles. 1-2 ounces tops. I would have had to pay more than $6, so I passed.

Here was the response:

"We are not currently shipping packages First Class Mail. Too many people continue to say that they don't receive
the goods. With no way to track the package, we were left holding the bag. Priority Mail is the cheapest option at this time.
This way we can track the package to your front door."

Edited by T.L. on 02/10/2012 18:45:33 MST.

Rick M
(rmjapan) - F

Locale: London, UK
pretend there is no USPS on 02/10/2012 18:45:22 MST Print View


Edited by rmjapan on 06/19/2015 07:28:09 MDT.

Art Tyszka
(arttyszka) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Um, back to the thread. on 02/10/2012 19:03:35 MST Print View

So, back to the original thread . . . Great looking pack, mine is on its way, can't wait to try out!

Ankar Sheng
(Whiskyjack) - MLife

Locale: The Canadian Shield
Re: Re: Re: Re: 2012 Murmurs back at Gossamer Gear on 02/10/2012 19:38:13 MST Print View

I'd just like to add, when I request for an item to be shipped first class and uninsured, I'm willing to put in writing that the seller assumes no risk for lost mail. This is pretty much just so they're protected from fraud, as its very rare that packages go missing in my experience. In fact I've only lost 1 in years of excessive online shopping (damm eclectic hobbies like UL backpacking!). For me, I've already saved far more by not buying insurance than I'd ever stand to lose if a parcel went missing.

I'm sympathetic towards the software issue, and completely understand just having 1 basic option to keep things hassel free. I'm happy as long as businesses are willing to be accommodating if you contact them personally.

Edited by Whiskyjack on 02/10/2012 19:46:35 MST.

Glen Van Peski
(gvanpeski) - F - M

Locale: San Diego
New Shipping Policy on 03/19/2012 19:20:03 MDT Print View

OK, we're trying out a new shipping policy, at least through the end of April, to be evaluated at that time.

$4.99 ground shipping to the lower 48 states, we choose the carrier.
Orders under $10 ship for $2.99, we choose the carrier, no tracking.


Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: New Shipping Policy on 03/19/2012 19:29:29 MDT Print View

Glen, I got mine about three weeks ago and, after an initial squabble over international shipping fees, the people at Gossamer Gear outdid themselves in helping to figure out a way to make it work. In ways that you really didn't have to. I was very much impressed and appreciative of that effort and open-mindedness. Thanks so very much! As GG has always been, the customer service is second to none!

The pack itself is a beauty. If had reservations about the earlier Murmur, all of them have disappeared after seeing this pack. I'm very much looking forward to warmer weather when I can try out the lightest set up I've ever put together and truly going SUL, which I've never done before.

Dave -
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Re: New Shipping Policy on 03/19/2012 19:33:44 MDT Print View

What? I thought you found the perfect pack in the Crown?