I like to talk as I walk...and at the two longish breaks where I cook, etc. I'm all for campfire comraderie, when I'm camping...although most places where I hike along the PCT, campfires can be problematic. Good point, though; maybe most people like to chew the fat around the campfire and would prefer that type of a camping experience to what I am proposing.

After your next trip with your hiking partner write up a detailed trip report with photos and post it here. Make it plain that the next trip you'd welcome others to join you.

Next step is to plan something outrageous yet fabulous such as "Reds Meadow to Yosemite Valley, 58 miles of high excursion overnight adventure." Set the date, apply for the permits and put the word out that you have four spots, two are already spoken for.

Again do the trip report and repeat.

This way you set up the trip, the plan, the milage, the expectations, the format, the whole thing. The people that join you do so because they like the plan, and everybody is happy. Or at least potentially, group dynamics have their own pitfalls.

+1 with Kristin

Do the work and people will show, usually.

All different types of hikers. You'll get a little core group and add some others from time to time. This is how it is going for me.

Well, there is something to be said about hiking in solitude. I highly prefer and recommend it.

Solo logistics= out of the house in 5 minutes.

Benefits to both styles. I too really enjoy time by myself. I do spend quite a bit of my time by myself so a group hike is kind of a novelty.

In the end I would say do the hikes that make you happy. If you have company, great. If not, great. As long as you are enjoying your time out there.

>"I like the almost "meditational" aspect of walking for hours at a time."

Todd,

Me, too. It takes me 5-10 miles just to leave all the work, honey-do, and logistics behind me, mentally.

I find solo hikes to really help clear my head. I also enjoy hiking with others and having long, engaged conversations. Each add to my mental health in different ways. And the longer the hike, the better for me.

Ugh. I envy all you west-coasters.

The only time I truly dislike hiking by myself is in winter. The evenings/nights are just way too long. All that darkness by yourself gets really lonely.
On one of my first backpacking trips it got dark at 5:00 p.m. and I didn't get to sleep until 1 a.m. (all by myself). Would have been much more tolerable with friends.

Thanks again all of you for the opinions and suggestions! One of my group's members has generously volunteered to organize somewhat shorter hikes (say 30 miles over two days) to encourage "beginner" participation.

My goal for this group is to section hike the PCT over a period of 4-5 years doing long weekend and longer trips. This is one of the reasons for the higher daily mileage expectations.

I agree that a mixture of solo and group trips is a good strategy. I'm not looking to organize large (>8 participants) groups, but just to build a base of like-minded backapackers I can trust. Any group larger than 3-4 can become unwieldy for reasons covered by other posters.

So, as suggested by several of you, I'll continue to plan the hikes I'd like to go on, and see who else would like to come along.

Have you considered exactly how you're describing these prospective hikes to the members? Terms like "big miles," "20+ miles/day," "covering lots of ground" - those sorts of phrases sound intimidating, especially to newbies or casual hikers. Who wants to participate in a forced death march?

But look at how you described your actual hiking style earlier in this thread: "I hike from about 7am until 10:30, cook/eat breakfast; hike on until about 2pm, cook/eat "dinner"; and hike until 1 hour before sunset; set up camp, have a snack, read my Kindle for an hour, then sleep." Where's the death march? That sounds like a positively civilized outing! Just leisurely strolling along, with regular breaks for meals, until it's time to make camp. What's hard about that? Same hike, same mileage covered - but the description of the day makes it sound much more inviting. (For a general group, I'd push breakfast back to 8:30 or 9 AM and add a real dinner at the evening camp site, but those are easy changes, and wouldn't affect the day's mileage one way or another.)

Perhaps de-emphasizing the actual daily miles covered in favor of "just strolling along from sunrise to sunset, with regular breaks for meals" will generate more enthusiasm in your group.

Thanks for the good ideas! I don't emphasize the "negative" aspects of the hikes in the Meetup, but I could certainly more clearly explain our hiking style and daily schedule. Maybe I'm too "honest" about the expected level of exertion. I could do a better job "selling" the mileage in a more palatable way. We'll see what happens.

Don't take this wrong, but why do folks want to hike in groups? I find going alone offers solitude and enhances my wilderness forays. A hike with my wife or son is the exception. I have broken this rule a couple times each of the past 3 years, and the trips have been very enjoyable, but I have kept them to a minimum of 2 per year. The solo trips are much more fulfilling.

I too don't mind hiking alone. However, there are a couple of reason I like a small group:

1. Putting cars at each end of a point to point hike.
2. Safety in case of injury or illness.

Since most of the PCT hike we plan are point to point, I need to go with at least one other person. If I really wanted solitude, we could start at opposite ends and exchange keys at some intermediate point...

I use a rule of thumb of 1.5 mph on my hikes. That pace includes my rest breaks, lunch break, picture taking, scenic views, etc. Sometimes I'm much fast than that. Sometimes, I'm slower (doing off trail stuff). If I'm on a long hike (e.g. JMT), I shoot for about 12 miles/day. That's 8 hrs - start @ 8am and stop @ 4pm. If, for example, I need to put in more mileage, I consciously take shorter breaks and hike longer. My overall pace will quicken. The longest I've ever backpacked is about 19 miles. And I'm doing this with a base pack weight of about 20 lbs. One of these days, I'll get down to uber-lite weight and be able to 'fly' on the trails. :)

Great Thread, and thanks for posting it Todd. For me, the challenge is my feet. You can put it in miles, or change it to hours, but my challenge is being able to cover the distances over days without pain a major challenge. I've gone through two set's of orthotics in less than two years trying to find the magic combo (orthotics / shoes) and have I have yet to find the right set. So, while I'm physically able to cover distance in hours/miles, my feet seem to suffer as a result if multiple days. I know, it's a product of conditioning them as well, but suffering from pronation and the ability to condition / train during the week is still a challenge. I've had to pass on an epic trip due to this fact alone. 72 miles in four days while possible , is not in the cards until I get the feet working comfortably.


Regards-
A

In terms of mileage targets, Naismith's rule http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naismith%27s_Rule is a good place to start

While this might suggest 7-9 hours walking (depending on elevation change) for 20 miles, it's worth looking further at Tranter's Corrections, which takes account of fitness and fatigue. While most people can keep up for 2-3 hours, you don't have to drop many fitness levels for fatigue to start becoming a major and limiting factor when you start talking 6+ hours of walking.

Man I need to get in shape, and get out more... I usually plan for about 5-8 miles per day on moderate to challenging hikes with a lot of elevation change.

Years ago I was leading lots of group backpacking trips. Back then, the rule of thumb was that we could travel at a speed of two miles per hour with an extra hour allowed for each 1000 feet of elevation gain. This was typically some trail in Yosemite at 8000-10,000 feet elevation. It also assumed that each pack was no more than 25% of the person's body weight. Well, I found that the group would beat that speed slightly.

Now we are carrying packs that weigh a fraction of what they were in the old days. This speeds us up, especially on the uphills. Still, if you are only good for eight miles, then I guess eight miles is what the limit will be.

I find that as I get older, I can still do 15-20 miles per day, but only with a light pack (10-15% of body weight).

--B.G.--