Hi,

I thought about considering the Verto--to see if I can get a better fit than the Houdini. Does anyone know how the two compare in terms of breathability and abrasion resistance?

Thanks!

rhz

The Verto is much lighter material and looks like a colored trash bag. I would not consider this more abrasion resistant than the Houdini.

Here's a real world review of the verto by Stick to give you an idea of fitment.

http://sticksblog.com/clothing/jackets/the-north-face-verto-wind-jacket/

Rafi:

Considering the money you are spending... seriously, if you can't tell which one (if any) is the real winner for you... then I highly recommend that you choose a shop that sells both and get them both -- and maybe even in different sizes. Bet you can get them for free shipping. And once you try them all on, you can simply return the rest for a full refund. Your return postage should be minimal, given how light these jackets are. So, ask by all means, of course, but don't let the very minimal cost of return mailing stop you from getting the one that truly fits you.

No experience with TNF, but I LOVE my Houdini jacket. It's the most breathable wind jacket I've ever tried (e.g. various other ones from Marmot, Golite, Columbia, etc.).

Hey Ben,

Yeah, I know I'd have to order the Verto to see if it fits. I was asking more about durability and breathability. The Houdini seems like a nice jacket and I've read great reviews about it. My only concern is that it's cut a bit tighter than I'm used to under the arms. It doesn't dig into my underarms though (If it did, I'd send it back without thinking). When I've had regular hiking shirts in the past that were cut close in the underarm, I'd sweat more. Not sure if that would be the case with this also.

Thanks,

rhz

Rafi:

You probably know by now that you ought to size up for the Houdini. What's your height and weight?

Wore my new Houdini under my bike jersey this morning, since it was 43 and about a 20mph wind when we started. Worked great. Sorry, off topic, I know. Had to brag a little.

Another great wind jacket to look at is the Rab Cirrus, on sale at Prolitegear.com for $88.00:

http://www.prolitegear.com/rab-cirrus-wind-top.html?opt=large%20/%20beluga

I can't say how it compares to the Houdini fit, but it gives you another high-quality option.

I see the Rab Cirrus is made of Pertex® Quantum 15D mini ripstop.

As regards breathability, anyone know how it compares to the Houdini?

Cheers,

If you wear a L, order an XL in the Cirrus. This jacket runs small...

Ben: At 5'10"/150lbs the medium is a perfect fit aside from under the arms when wearing a thin synthetic baselayer with a thicker merino layer. The large is baggy on me under such conditions.

However, if I include my WM Flash jacket, the medium is a bit tight.
Most of the time, I'd use my windshirt while stopping on the trail, without the Flash jacket. I suppose if I wanted to wear both, I could layer the medium Houdini under the Flash jacket.

Thanks,

rhz.

Whatever is more breathable ...

A windshirt is useless if it aint breathable ...

Test it in the store

I did a test drive of the Verto at REI and found it sweaty. Pry my Houdini from my cold dead fingers :)

"Ben: At 5'10"/150lbs the medium is a perfect fit aside from under the arms when wearing a thin synthetic baselayer with a thicker merino layer. The large is baggy on me under such conditions."

A shell jacket is supposed to be a bit 'baggy' -- and not too form fitting! I'm 5'9", 145 lbs. and I started with the Medium. The jacket was fine when worn over a tee shirt. However, when worn with a very light weight insulation jacket underneath (the MontBell UL Down Inner), the Houdini was practically hugging me -- which compromised the insulation jacket!

I actually sold the Medium and got a Large instead. Yes, it is less form fitting on its own -- but not overly so. And just right with an insulation layer underneath. You should get a Large.

Below is me wearing the Houdini Medium with Montbell insulation jacket underneath. The Houdini was constricting the MontBell at the torso (and also a bit short at the waist):

Edited by ben2world on 02/05/2012 10:12:57 MST.

I've had both a Houdini and Verto for over a year. In real world hiking up steep slopes, I really can't tell the difference in the breathability, and I also use both for aggressive bike riding which inevitably means working up a heavy sweat. The Houdini is a nicer shell, more versatile, and a much better hood. Nonetheless, when backpacking, I always reach for the Verto, it being significantly lighter and significantly more compact when in the pack. (I think that the Stoic wind jacket is very similar to the Verto) Same on the bike: I can wear the Verto, then when I warm up it stuffs into my limited hydration pack pockets, whereas the Houdini doesn't without being half out and flapping around. On the other hand, for day hiking I take the Houdini. Meanwhile, my 10 or 12 year old original Pertex wind jacket, which weighs 11 oz. vrs. 3 for the Verto and 5.7 for the Houdini(all XL) is easily the most breathable, has velcro closures on the cuffs and a real drawstring for the hood, not to mention hand pockets. Also worth mentioning that all three wind shirts are not for any rainy conditions other the than the briefest downpour--they sure ain't rain jackets IMHO.

Edited by Bufa on 02/05/2012 10:40:45 MST.

Hi Ben,

Yeah, the medium layered over the Flash jacket looks kind of like the picture. The large just seems huge w/o the Flash--hence the dilemma. Is the effectiveness of the windshirt compromised if it is layered _underneath_ a puffy?

Thanks again,

rhz

Some subjectivity here, but I really don't see it as 'huge' at all. It's fine to me -- and I'm slightly shorter and smaller than you. People expect a shell jacket not to be form fitting. And in the outdoors certainly, function trumps fashion.

To me, wearing the puffy on the outside is less efficient. An exposed puffy is more exposed to the cold outside -- and potentially to moisture as well -- as in a light drizzle.

If you are that worried about looks, wear the thing, take and post a photo of yourself -- and folks here can give their opinion. :)

Edited by ben2world on 02/05/2012 12:02:32 MST.

Of course very possible that it might just not fit quite right in any size.

I've not tried them next to each other but I'd say that the hooded Cirrus/Houdini are ball park in terms of fit. Although with neither even close to fitting my arms right I might have missed the odd difference elsewhere :)

Whats slightly odd is that the cut on the non hooded cirrus is very different - much longer arms for one thing. Seems fine performance wise.

Edited by MartinCarpenter on 02/05/2012 13:40:27 MST.

I found my medium Houdini a bit baggy and thought about switching to a small. I'm 5'8" and 175lbs. It fits perfect over my Rab Microlight Alpine and an older Montbell Down Inner jacket. Maybe they changed the cut over the years? And the Pertex Microlight is already windproof as is, so I wouldn't wear a windshirt with the Rab.

The large Houdini is just too big. The sleeves fall beneath the tips of my fingers. The medium seems better, but not perfect. I'll probably order the Verto to compare.

Thanks again,

rhz

I've tried the Verto jacket on and REALLY like it! The best way to check for fit is by going to the North Face website and look at the sizing on the Verto page. The measurements that they give are dead-on, so you can measure what you plan to wear under your new Verto and order the right size.