I've seen bits and pieces about their strength, or lack of, but I'd like to hear from users who have knee issues and bear more weight on them than one might normally while descending.

Personally, I find myself using my aluminum poles as a crutch of sorts, often times bearing most of my weight (150lbs + ~8-10lbs in pack) on them during descents due to my knees. The steeper the descent, the more weight I put on the poles...and the steeper it is, the longer I make them which would make them even more vulnerable. Can the LT4 poles handle this type of usage?

Edited by rustyb on 02/01/2012 10:24:01 MST.

I don't adjust mine once set (so never longer or shorter), but I've put my entire weight on them vaulting over puddles (much more than 150lb and around 15 lbs in pack) more than once and they're still going strong. I think the weakness with these poles would be in lateral stress, they seem fine for top down stress. I don't get out anywhere near as much as I'd like, or even very often at all since last year, but my poles are (I think) nearing three years old and going strong.

I used LT4s for a AT thru hike. I am top heavy and about 180lbs, pack around 22-24 usually and descending I would lean heavily on my pole and I never had a problem did not see much flex in them either. Handled my weight fine. I bought the long length poles but did not have them extended to high up I think the extra pole length inside the top part helped stiffen it up.

It was not till I slipped and slammed my foot back to the ground to prevent myself from falling did I break a pole. My foot came right now on it from the side.

Also note my style of use, leaning heavily on the top of the poles while descending did a number on the cork handles. They are not very robust. But very light, a simple plastic or rubber cap would have solved this problem, possible to MYOG add something to them after purchase before you beat them up.

"Also note my style of use, leaning heavily on the top of the poles while descending did a number on the cork handles".

That is exactly what I do...but the steeper the descent for me, the more I have them extended. I see my aluminum poles flexing quite a bit at times and I have often wondered if I'd be snapping lighter carbon poles.

At any rate, thanks, Douglas and Clint.

I also extend my gg poles on downhills and place weight on them because of my cranky knee. Like others, I've found them to be reliable for this use. But I have--twice--snapped off the tip section below the basket when the tip became wedged in rocks and I moved forward. I didn't even notice the break both times until minutes later. Now I'm very conscious of where I place my poles. No problems last year. However I've never broken a pole in many years of use before these. Just my experience. I'm still using the gg lt4's.

Rusty,

We are about the same weight. I've never had any troubles with my GG LT4 or TiGoat ti poles. Even more reassuring, I know hikers much heavier than us -- and they do just fine as well. :)

Are these the poles?
http://gossamergear.com/trekking/lt4-trekking-poles.html

Do they have straps?

I've seen so many people using trekking poles improperly.

Without straps two things are not done properly.
1 - grasping the poles uses the forearm mussels - they should not be used.
2 - the biceps are used - the triceps should be used which allows the weight to be transferred to the shoulders

When I use trekking poles all my weight is on the strap. The handle is in the web between my thumb and forefinger; my pinky steers the pole. I am not really grasping the handle at all. This is especially important when you are tired.

The poles should be adjusted - longer or shorter - depending upon the predominate terrain. If you don't do that you aren't getting the benefit of the poles. I've seen people who adjust their posture (bending forward) instead of the length of the poles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skXVMA5nShA

I would not worry about the length of the poles if you stay within the specifications.

For knee health I use Osteo-Bi-Flex
http://www.osteobiflex.com/

I use Black Diamond Trail Back Trekking Poles
http://www.backcountry.com/black-diamond-trail-back-trekking-pole-bld0322?CMP_SKU=BLD0322&MER=0406&CMP_ID=SH_FRO001&mv_pc=r126&003=7162907&010=BLD0322&mr:trackingCode=579391DA-F061-DF11-9DA0-002219319097&mr:referralID=NA
Black Diamond Trail Back Trekking Poles

I'm a bit slow but - when I do a 11hr round trip Colorado 14er climb the Osteo and poles help a great deal, especially on the way down.

Edited by dextersp1 on 02/01/2012 14:57:34 MST.

Jeff

Before I stepped on mine, I had caught my tip quite a few times became almost a reflex, I new that it was going to snap, in those moments I just let go of the pole and let it fall, risk damaging it when it falls rather then guaranteeing the break under my own force.

Rusty

Re: adjusting
I did that as well, at a certain point I became tired of it and found a sweet spot were I could lean on the tops of my poles with my palms(usually) or even finger grip it descending and then when going up hold onto the very bottom of the grip with the very top of my hand. Flat ground I would hold it regular. Saved a good bit a time and fiddling. Even doing that, on super steep descents I would sometimes still extended them if I felt I need it.

I also try and make it a point now when going up or walking on flat/ easy hills to occasionally just hold my poles in my hands. I found I had come to depend on them to much and my balance and strength was off with out them.

"When I use trekking poles all my weight is on the strap. The handle is in the web between my thumb and forefinger; my pinky steers the pole. I am not really grasping the handle at all. This is especially important when you are tired".

This is the method I normally use. I switch to the aforementioned method while descending though...and not always. I mix it up depending on the terrain and how I feel at the time.

Thanks for the info, everyone!

The main purpose for me when I use poles is safety, specifically descending, that's why I use them most going down hill. Also a strap makes ditching your pole safely that much more difficult. Straps are just one more thing to fiddle with, for me less is more. For your use with poles maybe using poles with out straps is not proper but I have used them effectively for my purpose of not falling over many thousands of miles. I have tried using straps and didn't like it. Plus cutting them off my lekis saved me an ounce and that my friend is very proper. :)

I'm with Clint. I don't use straps. Works for me, which is what matters.

"I'm with Clint. I don't use straps. Works for me, which is what matters."

I guess the question is: Although it is working for you; are you getting the full benefit of the poles without using the straps?

In addition, to the things I mentioned, straps have been safer for me. I'm thinking about the times towards the end of the hike and you are walking down a trail at a good clip but a rock or whatever turns an ankle - having my hands in the strap has prevented a fall and possible injury. If I didn't use the straps, I doubt if I would have been able to catch myself from falling.

Having said all that the benefits of trekking poles versus no poles aren't so evident that a person would shout - 'That's amazing'. But, the cumulative effects are worth having them.

Edited by dextersp1 on 02/01/2012 15:24:34 MST.

I don't have straps on mine but I did tie a cord on to the little loop below the handles. This loop is used like a wrist strap when doing stream crossing to keep my poles with me if I take a dip. I had that happen last summer in N. Yosemite as the current picked me up and floated me away. I was able to hold on to my poles as i made it to the streams edge and climbed out.

The only problem I had with breakage was when I stepped or fell on the poles. But the good thing is that they can often be field repaired with duct tape and super glue.

I used a pair of them for 2 1/2 years without a problem, other than the twist lock. But I have never been convinced they help, actually I think they slow me down. But they do work well as poles for shelters.

Last fall I broke both of them in one day, on a long 9,000 foot descent that I was not really in shape to do. My legs got very wobbly towards the end. They broke trying to support my weight when I put too much lateral weight, which I know will break them. I really think that had I gone down without them, my legs would have not gotten as tired, because they induce you to change your natural posture... or maybe I don't know how to use them properly.

So for the past few months I have been hiking without poles at all, and have been much happier. I did get a pair of carbon fiber Black Diamond poles for snowshoeing, because of the superior locking system. I took these on a desert mountain cross country trip towards the end of last year to try them out on some of the more difficult ascents and descents. Ended up leaving them strapped to my pack the whole time, and was happier not using them at all.

So now I have 4 pieces of LT4 poles. GG sells the bottom sections separately and I haven't yet decided if I will replace them yet. The breakage was due to applying pressure that they are not designed to handle.

I may even dig out my old hiking staff, I like it better anyway.

My practice follows Paul's and parallels what I do on snowshoes and X-C skiis. I pass my hand UP through the strap loop and then bring my hand down with the strap and pole handle in the web between my thumb and forefinger.

I find that I can then use the much bigger muscles in my upper arm to push off the pole or support my weight and not use the small muscles of my hand to grip the handle tightly. If your hands get cold (due to mild hypothermia or pack straps blocking venous return), this helps even more as you still have strength in your upper arm when you've lost grip strength.

Paul

There is a type of hiking pole out there that is the best of both of our worlds. Not sure of the name of it I have seen two people out hiking with it. Phil from sectionhiker.com has them. Anyway the handle basically cups your hand and and wrist like a strap would with out having to put your hand through anything.

Greg that is a good point, the LT4's do have that little loop that could be used to attach a cord for crossing rivers. Never thought about loosing them in a river if I lost my footing.

>"for crossing rivers"

This reminds me of a trick we used on group trips. Two poles with straps can be passed through each other's straps. What you end up with is two poles joined by a square knot in the straps.

Then one person crosses a creek, or the deep part of a creek and serves as a foundation as does another person on the first side of the creek. Less steady hikers can then use those two poles as a handrail as they cross. A 9 to 10-foot handrail can help steady less experienced hikers a lot.

"My practice follows Paul's and parallels what I do on snowshoes and X-C skiis. I pass my hand UP through the strap loop and then bring my hand down with the strap and pole handle in the web between my thumb and forefinger."

Same here. I guess people who use strapless poles have enormously strong forearms, or they put very little weight on the pole. I don't understand how any method other than the "X-C ski" one could be at all efficient.

I also suspect that the folks who do fine with strapless poles are (generally) light, trim people. I'm a hoss at 230lbs plus my gear, so going steeply downhill is really tough on my knees without poles.

I concur, though, that the poles slow me down on gentle terrain. I only employ them on steep slopes.

Rusty,

I think for poling up and downhill, GG LT4s are totally fine. I have only snapped my poles when doing other things - climbing over down trees, slipping in snow and kicking them, stepping on them, etc.

I put a lot of weight on them (I weigh ~200lbs).