It seems to me that with respect to pyramid shelters one has to choose between good wind shedding ability and good snow shedding ability. A low and broad 'mid, like a Speedmid or Trailstar, sheds wind well but is not steep enough to do well under heavy snow loading. On the other end of the spectrum, something like a Shangrila 2 or Duomid deals well with snow but in at least some orientations does poorly with high winds, or at the very least requires substantial guying out to help it along.

Are there designs which deal with both well, or is it always a choice between favoring one or the other?

The one mid I haven't tried myself is a full sized square mid. The Shangrila 5 and larger Oware mids are 9 feet to a side and 6 feet tall. The height no doubt aids with snow shedding, but do the large panels properly tapered to the ground do well with winds if staked properly?

I am also interested if there is such a design.

A tall, steep wall mid is not so bad in wind. I don't know about the 4 sided ones but users usually say they're good. I use the Shangri-La 3, which is 6 sided and that surely helps with the wind compared with the 4 sided ones. The Shangri-La 3 is quite good. With the standard pole, which is a bit heavy but very sturdy, it felt safe in quite serious winds. With trekking poles, it still made it.

The thing is a mid is quite aerodynamic because the wind is not so strong close to the ground, where the panels are bigger.

One interesting possibility (that I haven't tried myself) is using a mid that can be set up differently depending on conditions: low and wide for wind without snow, high and narrow if there's snow. This could be done by hiding at least one panel for the high & steep configuration. People here have done that with a Trailstar setting it as a 4 sided mid but I don't know if somebody has tried it in real world conditions.

Tipi's tend to do both well. I had an 8 man out (9 feet tall) taking 35 MPH winds and a few inches of wet snow without much issue. I know smaller ones would fair better.

I apologize for the the commercial stuff, but I think our BCS (backcountry shelter) does both pretty well. I know a group the used one in 40 -50 MPH winds for a couple days without issue. On all except the rear sides it sheds snow extremely well. I've had on in 30 + winds (i know not super strong) and really it would not have even bothered me enough to wake up.

Size also plays a factor here. The larger a shelter the more sides it can have which helps with wind resistance. This is why tipis do well in both wind and snow.

Looking at the geometry we could say that less than 45d sidewall pitch would be best for wind (flat being best, vertical being worst) and for snow the opposite (flat being worst, vertical being best). So to maximize both you want a shelter with a 45 degree angle to the walls. I haven't done the calcs but some simple trig and specs should let you see if a shelter is in that range.

There's some deeper physics you can get into if you start looking at friction forces between silnylon/cuben and snow. This may let you push the angle lower (increase wind resistance) without hurting snow performance, however this probably only works on paper where it's assumed there's an infinite cliff at the end of the shelter wall, where in reality snow would accumulate at the base.

So looking for a 45 degree pitch to the walls may help you find a pyramid that will work. A pyramid with a square base would need a height equal to half of a side of the base. So a 7.5' sq mid would have to have a height of 45 inches (just under 4 feet). A 10'x10' would be 5' height. For a spacious two man the MLD speedmid should fit the bill.

For more complex shapes (like a hexamid) you need a height of around 85% the length of a baseline. So a small 2 man hexamid would have a 60" baseline and a height of 52". So the bigger the go, you'll have a backcountry skyscraper. At this point we can see why more complex shapes start to appear in mountaineering shelters (which is basically what you are describing with both wind and snow concerns).

Great post, Dustin. A lot to think about in there. Another variable to consider is the friction forces between the fabric of your shelter and the type of snow you typically get in your area. Here in Colorado, I've experienced snow that just slides off the steep, slick silnylon sides of my shelter as it falls and snow that just sticks, requiring a shove or two from inside the shelter in the middle of the night to get the snow to slide to the ground.

I used a large square mid last season on snow on a 2 week mountaineering trip. I sold it. Why?
1) too much condensation with four people. 
2) too big floor space. Sometimes it difficult to find a large flat area.
3) you need min 12 anchors. Building anchors in snow was a lot of work. If you set up the tent in the late afternoon, then by late evening the anchors would melt and and you need to rebuild the anchors.

I didn't get to test the storm resistance. We had some snow and wind but it was ok. I am searching for a new 1/2 person shelter that has bombproof stability in worst weather and requires min no of pegs. I am doing more research on MLD solomid.

12 anchors for a mid? That seems pretty crazy to me, I generally use 4 or 5 with my Oware 9x9. I have weathered some pretty serious winds in it. I did have to get out in the middle of the night and stake out 3 more sides to cut down on some of the wall deflection. If i had mid panel tie outs on it I would trust a Mid over almost any other shelter in the wind. You will get deflection, but it will stay up and you can still sleep if you can ignore the flapping.

Oh and I have never staked my pyramid all the way to the ground, I did build a snow wind block a couple times.

Edited by justaddfuel on 03/09/2012 07:36:35 MST.

I am counting the periphery tie outs. That's 8 of them plus 4 mid panel tieouts.

My question is, why use all the tie outs unless the wind is really strong?

"My question is, why use all the tie outs unless the wind is really strong?"

The mid panel tie outs maximize interior room (especially at the head end).

I just use 4 corner stakes. And 1 for the door that doesn't do much for holding the tent up.

I probably don't do more than about 30 MPH - kind of avoid exposed areas in bad weather

60 inch peak fairly good for shedding snow, though I have only a little experience. You have to bang on the walls from the inside to get the snow off or the walls gradually get pushed in by snow

Staking mids or tipi's should not be taken lightly. It is very important when the weather turns poor. You can also create a lot more interior room with guyouts, especially vectoring and tensioning them if possible. The weight and time penalty is extremely minimal. I'll set up a basic pitch, when weather is optimal, but if the weather is anything but I'll set it up all the way. Winds above 20 -30 I start guying out.

"My question is, why use all the tie outs unless the wind is really strong?"

The mid panel tie outs maximize interior room (especially at the head end).
-----

Yes. With 4 people, 4 backpacks, and all the mountaineering gear we needed maximum room. Plus the mid tieouts keeps the fabric tensioned in wind and keeps the snow off. Better to do this in day then in the night. (I am talking about altitude 11k to 17k in Himalayas).

Perimeter tieouts were used to reduce drafts. We also built snow walls.

The mid was my idea. None of the other guys are into ultralight.

Solomid is looking a really good option for me this season. The only issue is wait time. My expedition is planned for last week of may and I don't think I can get one to India in time. I will keep watching gear swap.

Sorry for the flippant comment Huzefa, I would be using 12 guy outs at 11k to 17k as well!

James, no problem.

What stakes do you guys use? I am considering 4 SMC T-anchors, 4 easton 9" stakes, 2 6.5" Vargo Ti Stakes to cover different terrains. Thats about 6.5oz for stakes. Are there any latest lighter options?