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Justin Baker
(justin_baker) - M

Locale: Santa Rosa, CA
Re: Re: Re: Re: UL Bear Protection? I have the answer. on 05/09/2012 20:19:38 MDT Print View

Oh, I didn't know what you were referring to. My bad!

Devon Cloud
(devoncloud)

Locale: Southwest
@ Justin on 05/09/2012 22:13:52 MDT Print View

"Devon, you should show the natives respect and pack heat in case they decide to kill you anyways."

I completely disagree in that instance and for the bear scenario.
Let me first say I am not anti-gun. I have taken certified gun safety courses and am planning on attaining my concealed permit (pretty easy to do in Texas).

That bing said, if I am in south Dallas broken down, the very worst thing I could do is let them know I have a gun. First, guns are a way of life in that neighborhood. I have experience shooting my handgun in a perfectly safe environment where I have to follow strict rules to shoot to make sure everyone is safe. Those rules and perfect environment do not exist in that neighborhood. Gunshots happen frequently and any one wishing me harm in that neighborhood is surely packing heat. They know how to draw quickly. They know the signs to look for when someone might draw on them. They know how to move like lightning if someone beats them to the draw. They outnumber me.
I know how to shoot at a target perfecting my stance and taking all the time I need to aim correctly.
Given that scenario, my odds are much better being respectful and, if faced with a group wishing me harm to ask for mercy instead of drawing my firearm. Yes there is a big part of me (the gung-ho macho side) that thinks defending myself and drawing my weapon is the way to go. Odds (which if one is thinking intelligently is what should be used to reason with and not one's pride when it comes to life and death situations) is what matters. Odds for survival when confronted by a couple of armed men say to keep your gun in your holster.
It's a little different defending on my own turf however. In my neighborhood or areas I am use to, I would agree with you.
Given the bear scenario, for a bear to be close enough to maul you, you are not going to be able to draw and even if you can, you are just going to make it mad.

I spend a lot of time in Riodoso NM as my family owns a cabin there. Black bears roam the streets there and are smart enough to get into the supposed bear-proof dumpsters. They pull the hummingbird feeders off of the trees they are hung on, sit on their ass like a human and hold the huming bird feeder between their hind feet and un-skew the top with their front feet and then drink the syrup like it was a mug of beer. These are very smart creatures that are basically cohabitating with humans and don't turn into Rogue animals like some suggest happens when a bear eats human food. The folks in Riuodoso know to respect them and give them distance.
I have been on the porch of the cabin eating Cheetos when a bear came around the corner, looked at me as if to say "drop the Cheetos and go inside for a while" , which is exactly what I did and the bear ate my Cheetos and walked to the neighbor's yard. If this can happen on a regular basis with no maulings, then a gun in a state park to protect against a bear is rediculous. If a bear is in the park you are in and you are awake you are going to be able to see it in time to walk away. If you are asleep it will leave you alone as long as you leave it alone...at least the chances are so slim that you will be attacked that preparing yourself for that attack is about as unnecessary as putting on an electrically insulated rubber suit to protect you against a lightning strike. Furthermore, by bringing a gun you put put people at higher risk of harm than the amount of safety you recieve by carrying it.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: @ Justin on 05/10/2012 16:32:07 MDT Print View

"That bing said, if I am in south Dallas broken down, the very worst thing I could do is let them know I have a gun. First, guns are a way of life in that neighborhood."

I had just such an experience in precisely that kind of neighborhood long ago. Funny thing is, the guy who came within a neuron misfire of ending my young life was one of Chicago's finest. I learned a very basic rule then and there about humans and bears: Stay the he!! out of such neighborhoods. It's a lot easier than dealing with all the hassles that come with packing heat or throwing yourself on the mercy of a being for whom such a concept is alien, and leaves you free to concentrate your energy on what brought you to the mountains in the first place, or the movie you were going to see, bar you were going to visit, etc. My 2 cents.

G Watson
(twiglegs)

Locale: Uk
A great insight. on 05/10/2012 17:27:28 MDT Print View

Interesting reading, for a UK native who's worse worry is being attacked by midges. :)

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
S&W and Tarus ti revolvers on 05/10/2012 18:23:16 MDT Print View

That Ruger LCR barrel is WAAAY too short. The muzzle velocity would be too low for proper damage.

Get a REAL magnum a .44 magnum in a 4" barrel Smith & Wesson or Tarus titanium frame.
Then you will have light weight and a bear stopper IF you get decent head shots.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: S&W and Tarus ti revolvers on 05/10/2012 19:12:53 MDT Print View

"Get a REAL magnum a .44 magnum in a 4" barrel Smith & Wesson or Tarus titanium frame.
Then you will have light weight and a bear stopper IF you get decent head shots."

With a weapon like that you'd be lucky if you didn't put the second round in your own head due to the recoil. ;0]

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
629 on 05/10/2012 20:45:56 MDT Print View

I carried a 3" 629 for several years in the Bob, hand loads w/ 220 grain 3/4 jacketed (I think Speer) bullets, these were slightly overloaded by a few grains- when I sighted it in w/ these hand loads (6-8 rounds) it literally bruised my hands!!!!

I can tell you that w/ .44 "snakeshot" in it was a grouse killing machine and didn't kick a bit :)

That was a long time ago and bear encounters have been studied much more closely; these days I just carry bear spray when wondering into grizzly country- no question which one I would rather have in a bear encounter

Luke Schmidt
(Cameron) - MLife

Locale: The WOODS
Re 629 on 05/10/2012 21:05:08 MDT Print View

I met an Alaskan hunting guide who kept a pistol just because it was the only thing that he could us if a bear attacked him in his tent. Bear spray obviously isn't going through a tent fly.
If I was going to Alaska and worred about that I think I'd use a different strategy. I think I'd cut the bottom off my tent and sew velcro there. That would keep the bugs out but I could tear out in any direction I needed too if a bear paid a visit. Off course in non-buggy areas I just use my tarp.

K C
(KalebC) - F

Locale: South West
Haha on 05/10/2012 21:41:01 MDT Print View

Once you backpack in AK several times and come face to face with Browns you will realize that they don't want any trouble. Spray and guns are a waste of time and weight, unless you are inexperienced and paranoid.

Devon Cloud
(devoncloud)

Locale: Southwest
old song in the 80's on 05/11/2012 07:31:22 MDT Print View

"Paranoia self-destroyaaaa...." :)

Enjoy nature..dont plan on how to destroy it furhter IMHO.

Nathan Hays
(oroambulant) - M

Locale: San Francisco
Wimpy gun on 05/11/2012 11:51:16 MDT Print View

I have chased off many bears in the Sierras. I have come within a few feet of an enormous male, actually inside my truck where my daughter was sleeping and a half eaten hamburger had yet to be thrown out, with boxes of food not yet in the bear box, and chased him off. I have run into another within ten feet coming around the trail and chased him off. I have had my pack gone through in the middle of the night. I have been in my tent with my three young children with a bear sniffing right at the door and chased it off.

Would any of those circumstances have led you to go for the gun?

I personally think it very wimpy if your ego feels the need to carry a firearm into an area where there are other campers. You can rationalize all you want about protecting your children in a tent, but it is more than a little sociopathic to increase the danger to those around you. And I don't care what kind of training you've had. Taking a shot at close range in a campground has many orders of magnitude greater chance of striking your neighbor than them dying from every other possibility combined.

My family has a long history of firearms, hunting, and collecting but the sensibilities we have gained lead us to leave those toys at home when we will be around other folks. And when it comes to the wilderness, guns are toys.