You would think that a retired eye doctor could see the truth.

--B.G.--

"We must do a better job of educating the readers that Lighter1 is actually two products, a cooking pan for heating water and a bear canister."

So if a buyer decides NOT to purchase the lid, is there an alternate lid that can be purchased? Or does the buyer HAVE to get both products?

Why market the lid and the canister as two products if you need them both to work together as intended? Doesn't make sense to me...maybe I'm missing something here.

Edited by mangus7175 on 07/12/2012 16:30:31 MDT.

I think he is an optometrist, not an ophthamologist.

They are two products only if you can use them independently. Your advertising is misleading! You are not selling a 1 lb 5 oz bear canister, because it only becomes a bear canister once you add in the 5 oz lid and 1 oz support. And as for trying to tug on religious sympathies... well I am not a member of your religion; is your product only geared toward Christian backpackers?

All that being said, I am still quite interested in your product. I like to fry fish when I backpack, so this would be a 2 for 1 for me. At its true weight of 27 ounces it is still an ounce less than the Bearikade Scout at less than 1/2 the price (albeit 3/5th the volume... but still big enough for a weekend).

So ... if you want to sell your product... I, as a potential customer, have some suggestions as you rework your website:

-clarify the price... you list price but don't say if that includes shipping and handling. Is tax charged anywhere?

-add contact information both email address and a physical location. I am not going to send someone with a website money if I don't know where they are located.

-list the actual total weight of the bear can... then advertise that weight includes the weight of the pan and handle.

-list volume on the website, not just in the video

-don't autostart the video

Additionally I would appreciate if you could address on here (and your website) if using the lid as a fry pan will cause it to warp and become unusable as a bear canister.

Ya, the statement "I am a retired eye doctor and we are a Christian family." was soooooo relevant to the product and this forum.

Steve

Are you deeply fearful of religion? Does even that question spark so much fear that you're ready to expound some alternate explanation? Are you old enough to realize you've been baited by the preceding sentence and to be mature enough to shut the hell up and focus upon THE PRODUCT being discussed?

We'll see.

Now, I'm off to the intarwebz to see if the web listing is updated. Like others, I believe the "product" isn't a product with a weight and price until all the necessary parts are together. I remain, however, ever optimistic regarding the creation of a better mousetrap.

[edit:] Yeah...okay, not thrilled with the marketing. I think it would be more truthful and useful to advert/sell the complete item, plus a "total set" with two bins and one lid, plus extra lids. This doesn't cost $85, it costs $125, minimum, right?[edit]

Edited by EBasil on 07/21/2012 10:40:01 MDT.

I see that they have updated the way you can order. Says they got Yosemite approval.


Everyone will lose that little screw rendering it useless as a canister.

Edited by kthompson on 08/18/2012 23:07:27 MDT.

I think the REVERSE would be better. A large POT with a lid attached. You could throw the food in a stuff sack. I wonder how much more it would weigh ?

Either that or make it a partial pot so I can cook more water with it... I don't use a pan... Hm...

Now that the Lighter1 products are approved for Yosemite and SEKI, I got to thinking about them again. Here is a summary I made to help me organize my thoughts. I'm sure someone will point out any errors in my thinking :) Besides, some may find it nice to have all the info collected in one place.

Counting the products just as bear canisters, I do not see either of the Lighter1 products as lighter than the competition:

Small Lighter1 -- comparison is the Bare Boxer Contender
*) Size is nice -- 7" diameter is the slimmest I know. As long as that is bear-proof, great -- fits better in small packs.
*) Weight -- Lighter1 is heavier (28 oz vs 26 oz)
*) Volume -- Lighter1 is a little roomier (300 ci vs 275 ci)
*) Price -- Lighter1 is much more expensive ($85 vs $39 (@ Detour Gear))
Lighter1 costs more than twice as much, is a little heavier (2 oz), and a little bigger (25 ci)

FWIW: Bearikade Scout is much more expensive than Lighter1, the same weight, and 2/3 bigger (500 vs 300 ci)

Big Lighter1 -- comparison is Bearikade Weekender, since Lighter1 is claiming light weight:
*) Weight -- Lighter1 is MUCH heavier (43 oz vs 31 oz, a 12 ounce difference)
*) Volume -- same -- both are ~650 ci
*) Price -- Lighter1 is much less expensive
Lighter1 is much less expensive, but also much heavier

Big Lighter1 -- comparison is Bear Vault 500, to keep the price closer
*) Weight -- Lighter1 is heavier (43 oz vs 41 oz)
*) Volume -- Lighter1 is smaller (650 ci vs 700 ci)
*) Price -- Lighter1 is more expensive ($90 vs $72 (Amazon) or $80 (REI))
Bear Vault 500 wins on all counts, though not by a huge amount

Now Lighter1 would claim I am forgetting the dual use cover. Here are some comments on that:

Many folks interested in a light pack are using a Caldera Cone -- in that case the Lighter1 "pot" is not usable, so there is no weight offset and the above points remain undisturbed.

The Lighter1 pot is usable if not using a Caldera Cone. In that case, let's compare to the Evernew 900ml titanium pot + lid -- 4.2 oz (pot alone is 2.9 oz)

Take your pick:
*) 2.2 oz saving: 4.2 oz vs Lighter1 pot lid of 2 oz for mfr supplied lids
*) 2.9 oz saving: assumes make own lid for each, so we ignore those weights

-- the small Lighter1 is less than one ounce lighter than the Contender, for more than double the price

-- the large Lighter1 is still much heavier than the Weekender, and less than one ounce lighter than the Bear Vault 500 (while still more expensive)

As noted earlier in this thread, there are some serious questions about using the Lighter1 pot:

*) You need to keep the (open) container within arm's length until you are done cooking (or eating) and ready to close it back up, even if you only boil water. That could be awkward.

*) If you cook in the "pot", then you are adding food odors to the bear can -- I know the canister is bear proof, but you still might want to think about odorizing it more than necessary.

*) If you use the pot's lid, then you have something with food odor that you cannot put in the canister (the lid is 7" diameter, and the canister opening is only 6" diameter). That is, among other things, illegal.

Edited by blean on 08/20/2012 00:29:39 MDT.

One advantage of the Bear Vault and Bearikade is that you can sit on them, which almost makes up for the weight and bulk. I don't think I'd want to sit on the Lighter 1, especially while frying fish! :-)

I don't see this as much of a difference over the small Bare Boxer I currenlty have. The best feature is the size. 7" dia by 9" long is what I like. The price is higher though. I don't see the pan as anything more than the lid to the container. It needs to be on at all time. 1.5 lbs vs 1.6 lbs. I would love a Bearikade in these dimensions even at much greater cost. 325 cid would be nice also.

Another advantage with all the other designs is that there are only two pieces to keep track of, not four. I'm telling you that little screw that holds it all together will be the center of much swearing in the backcountry. Better have a spare. Don't strip out the threads in the handle either. Don't loose that handle either.

Because of this thread I went to the Lighter1 website. It is still confusing as it shows a bear proof canister at 1 lb. 5 oz. and then the lid at 6 oz. and the handle at 1 oz. They really can't classify it as 1lb. 5oz. canister if the lid is not attached since it is just a plastic bottle at that point.

Kind of weird marketing if you ask me. Back on 7/12/2012 they said they would address the issue. I don't think it has been addressed. It just needs to be marketed as a 1lb. 12oz canister which INCLUDES a dual use cook pot.

"Back on 7/12/2012 they said they would address the issue."

To be fair to them, they only said they would clarify that they are selling two products. They did put the first line under the product as, "Lighter1 is two products!" I agree that is confusing.... what are the two products? They have stopped saying it is a 1lb 5oz bear canister and now call it a 1lb 5oz "polycarb" canister. They absolutely refuse to honestly and clearly tell their consumers how much their bear canister weighs.

I would still like to know if the lid can be used as a frying pan or is it only for heating water?

With all the comments regarding this Bear Canister (Polycarb Canister) most all of them negative.

Has anyone purchased one or know of anyone who has purchased one?

Has Anyone, purchased one of these canisters ? Anyone ?

WTB: Does anyone have a lighter1 bear canister?

I would like to try a new bear canister this year on a 5 week trip PCT/JMT.

They were listed at the Mather Ranger station as approved bear resistant canisters.

Rangers still rent Garcia Machine Bear cans.

Still have not seen anything other than bear Bearvaults and Bearikades "in the wild".

Sure would like to see a seasonal approach to food storage.

How about Ursack S29 approval from Jan 1 to May 1st for the Yosemite and Seki?


.
.
An example of "bear canister country".

Edited by Ice-axe on 01/02/2013 00:22:43 MST.

Of a couple of 'em...

Back in the day I lived in the Sierra Nevada and hung food. Hated it. What a pain, tying up rocks, finding a tree with a branch that works, yada yada. As one who loves treeline and above, hanging food was extremely irritating.

Used a Garcia a couple times, thing was heavy and huge.

Then I got a BearVault BV450 Solo. I actually really like the twist top (even in cold temps, it was easy to open and didn't need any tools to do it). And I also really like that it's transparent. Easy to find things. And the wide opening is really convenient as well. It's really been great. LOVE that I didn't have to hang anything! Forgot to brush my teeth? No problem, didn't have to bring down my hanging stuff-bag mess just to get the toothpaste.

Then I got more and more into photography, and with 10 pounds of photo equipment, and my legs not gettin' any younger (go figure), I started the process of lightening my load (I hike solo, so whatever I need, I have to carry).

I downsized from an Osprey Aether 70 to a Granite Gear Blaze A.C. 60. After that, I found that the BearVault was just a wee bit too heavy and too big, so I wondered if there was anything a bit smaller.

Then I saw the BareBoxer (yes, it's spelled Bare) Contender online and went for it. On my small scale (EatSmart Precision Pro) it's 26.7 oz, or 1.66666- pounds. So a tad heavier than advertised. But who knows how accurate scales are. Philosophically, how does one ever truly know? Do you have to buy ten scales, weigh everything and take the average (minus the scores from that one judge from Germany)? Let's say your scale is off 1/2 oz and you have 30 items (large or small) in your pack, that's 15 oz or about a pound of difference. But I digress...

Anyway, love the size, the weight savings is nice. It's basically a baby Garcia. The BearVault on my same EatSmart scale is 33 oz, so 6.3 oz savings and again, a bit smaller, but that smaller size is much more convenient. Fits my Blaze really well now; the BearVault was just a bit too large and made it pack funny. The opening is a little strange but makes sense once you get used to it, and I do have a multi-tool (I know, I'm not a true ultralighter) that makes it easy. My only concern is just that, really: needing a tool to open it.

I miss the transparency, the larger opening and the tool-free operation of the BearVault. But the compromise is worth it. I've toyed with the idea of getting the ursack, but the comfort of a hard-sided bear canister that I don't have to tie up anywhere is at this point worth the tradeoff. It takes me 30 seconds to deal with my food once I'm done eating and such. I walk a few dozen yards from my campsite, and I'm done. I don't have to care if there are rocks or trees for tying and all that.

So if you have any questions that I haven't covered about the BearVault BV450 vs the BareBoxer Contender, fire away. No, I don't intend on selling my BearVault at this point. It's the perfect size for when my wife and I backpack together, and I don't see any 5+ night jaunts for us in the near future.

Added: Oh, and as far as fitting food into it, I think I could fit a 4-5 night trip in it, HOWEVER I do not cook on the trail (weight goes to photography equipment). Well, 5 might be pushing it... BearVault could handle 5-6 nights if all cold meals.

Edited by OpenSkiesBeckon on 04/04/2013 15:29:29 MDT.

Has no one around here tried a Lighter1? It reports to be the same weight and size as a bareboxer and you have multi-use potential. I am definitely thinking about getting one, but am a bit hesitant considering there response on here. I like that it is clear and doesn't appear to have a recess.

I wonder how well that closure system works. I am also wondering how well it would work for frying fish.