So, I'm working out my layering system for mountaineering this summer. After reading Danny and Kristen's article on the Rab MeCo 120 LS shirts I purchased one. It is a top-notch shirt; stitching is tight, good for sun protection, good thermal balance, and only weighs 5 1/4 oz. A perfect sun shirt base-layer for my endeavors. Except...

Enter the R1 hoody. I just purchased one sized medium. I wear medium everthing in Patagonia. The R1 by itself is nice and form-fitting, lengths are spot on, it may be a little tight in the arm region, I love the deep chest zipper and balaclava hood, and it works great underneath my Houdini. But...

The rocky marriage. Both layers(MeCo and R1) are great by themselves, but when I try to stack them the Cocona technology becomes akwardly grabby next to the micro-grid pile of the R1. Standing still the warmth to weight ratio of the two are amazing, but I will be on the move while climbing and slogging, so I'm looking for a more perfect match.

Here's the scenarios I'm kicking around, please feel free to pick them apart or dial them in. Any wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

- Get a R1 in size large.
- Look to a different baselayer. (Really don't want to do this, but may have to)
- Ditch the R1 and Houdini for a slicker midlayer like, Arc. Atom hoody.
- Or start all the way over. Needs (Sun protection, thermal distribution and good venting options, weight, and a good hood (I'm open to buffs and balclavas).

This will be my mountain gear for the next 5 years, so while price is always a factor. I'm very open to anything since I can justify using it over a long period until it break down.

Thx for any help,
Matthew Brown

P.S. If this helps, a WM Flash hoody will be my primary insullation piece with a Westcomb Cruiser LT as my Outershell.

Do you use a windshirt? If so, why not use that with the MeCo most of the time and when it gets colder, slip the R1 over the windshirt? The windshirt will allow the Hoodie to slip easily over the MeCo. If it gets colder and you really need the windshirt on the outside, you can always turn the Hoodie inside out so that it slips easily over your MeCo and the windshirt will allow the micro-grid pile to work. I've personally found that a short-sleeve merino baselayer with a windshirt is more than enough to handle most of my summer endeavors even at 3,000 meters. Only at night when the temperature drops and I'm sitting still do I usually don more layers. Just some thoughts.

Edit: Just saw that you use the Houdini...

P.S. May I ask where you found the MeCo? I've looked everywhere I can't seem to find them in stock...

Edited by butuki on 01/22/2012 08:10:22 MST.

Brilliant Miguel. Super simplistic solution. Just tried both ways. A little tight in the arms, so I'm going to buy a second hand R1 in large and give it a go also. Thanks a bunch.

I got my MeCo from gearx.com. Looks like they only have XL left. Prolitegear.com carries them also, but they are completely out of stock.

Here's a Med in the UK.
http://www.cragandmoor.co.uk/p_details.php?pid=146

Thanks again for your help.



P.S. I'm still open to any other suggestions that have worked for others on the mountain.

I have the same problem with the R1. I spend about 45 seconds squirming to get it on right and after that the two garments move together just fine and I don't notice it anymore. It's a little annoying to take things on/off (especially long sleeve base layers) but I have gotten used to it. The R1+windshirt combo is an amazing layering system.

Edit: One thing that helps a lot is to grab the sleeve cuff of your base layer while you stick your arm in the R1. Also try to line the thumb hole on the R1 up right so you don't have to twist the sleeves against each other.

Edited by andrew.f on 01/22/2012 12:51:31 MST.

i use the mec R1 copy over various thin baselayers without any issue

however my base layers are somewhat slick and form fitting ... notably nike drifit and the MEC ones

personally for climbing i like my R1 to be form fitting as well ... it gets in the way less ...

ive never put my R1 copy over a windshirt ... IMO the windshirt is there to prevent the wind from blowing away the heat from yr R1

my suggestion would simply to find a combo that matches ... going to an atom lt (which i also have) is too warm on the move IMO unless yr in pretty cold conditions

as said nike drifit does work well with my r1 copy, as does any cheap top with a slick outer weave (read synth)

mec r1 copy and cheap mec baselayer in the canadian rockies ...

Edited by bearbreeder on 01/22/2012 13:58:28 MST.

I'm in the same dilemma with you, and basically chose to sell the R1 and is thinking to replace it with a Montane Featherlite Smock. I presume it is roughly warmer just a bit compared to R1 + Houdini, but at the half weight, and it will slide nicely over a thin baselayer. A baselayer is already wicking anyway, why add another baselayer?

Andrew - I do hold the cuff already, but need to line the thumb hole up. Hopefully this will relieve the torsion bind of the two sleeves working against each other.

Eric - I can easliy see a slicker base working. My FA paradise slides in and out of the R1 nicely, but is too warm for the layering system I am putting together. I'll go to Dick's SG and try the Nike shirt out.

Ismail - The Montane looks nice and minimalist, but I'd like to stay with the hooded option. As to having two wicking layers, it just gives me about 20 degrees of layering to play around with between the two.

Thanks for all the scenarios and methods guys. I'll have this thing dailed in yet.

I use cap 1 as my light base layer, it has a pretty slick finish and the R1 layers over pretty easily

^ to the above poster, I don't consider the R1 as a base layer- mine is used exclusively as a mid-layer and almost exclusively in shoulder/winter seasons- when it's cold enough that the Cap 1 + Houdini doesn't work- the R1 in the role of a mid layer works quite nicely- even in very high exertion activities ie snow shoeing, trail running etc

Thanks Mike. I was looking at a Cap 1 silk weight at the local camp store yesterday.

I had gathered the R1 was a prefered midlayer after months of lurking of the gear forums. After watching Mike Clellands' layering video; this system seemed to naturally fall into place.

- Super thin baselayer
- Midweight fleece hooded
- Windshirt hooded
- Insulated down jacket hooded
- Hardshell hooded

So far my system comes in just under 4lbs for my upper body. But it's so much more. It's so darn versitile for so many different conditions. And by excluding the hardshell from the group I think I could easily take my Alpinlite to 10 degrees maybe 5 in this set up!

Thanks for your advice.

Edited by MatthewBrown on 01/22/2012 18:43:43 MST.

That setup is ideal, IMO, except for one thing. I would substitute the down layer for a synthetic puffy. When I go on climbing trips there are just too many weather and terrain variables for me to trust down very much. I would go with something like the Nano Puff from Patagonia, the Atom LT hoodie from Arc'teryx, the Xenon from Rab, or a Thermawrap from Montbell. I have and use a down insulation layer, but I save it for straight backpacking trips where I know I can set up a shelter fairly fast and won't be stuck on the side of a cliff or mountain hoping I don't soak my insulation layer with sweat or precipitation. Even if you bail off a climb in nasty weather it will be a little while before you can effectively get out of the weather and not worry about stuff (unless you use a bothy bag).

Righton Izeloz. I had just started looking into synthetics for my primary insulation piece. I had it narrowed down to two of the ones you mentioned. The Montbell Thermawrap Pro and a few of the Rab offerings. I like the Rab due to their use of Pertex and Primaloft, two materials I am accustomed to.

Three quick questions:

Do you have any experience with the Montbell Execelloft?

Should I go for a longercut back jacket?

What about the WM Flash XR with the Proloft laminated fabric?

Thanks for your help.

I use a Montbell Thermawrap for my "lightweight" piece and a MEC Tango for when it's really cold. Primaloft One is better stuff, IMO. The Montbell stuff is less insulative. Primaloft Eco (Rab and some others use it in a few products) is also less efficient. I love my Montbell, but I am thinking I will be replacing it soon with a Rab or Arc'teryx with Primaloft One. I really like the long on back, short on front cut for climbing. Two way zips on the front are also nice, but it's really rare to find those on anything. I don't have any experience with the WM with Proloft. I own two of their bags but no clothing. Maybe someone else can chime in on that.

My fix: Merino 3 Hoody and an Atom LT Hoody = bomber.

I wear the arcteryx phase SL long sleeve baselayer as a sun shirt/base layer. 3.7 ounces for men's medium on my scale!

I'm a medium in Patagonia as well, and the phase SL fits perfect under my R1 hoody. No grabbiness.

The phase SL dries faster, wicks better, and resists stank better than any other synthetic fabric I've used. Downside is that it's not as odor resistant as wool. Every 4 days I need to wash it, where was with ibex wool I can go a full week. Oh yeah, and your nips show just a little. Not as bad as the golite shirts though.

+1 on the Cap1 slick finish-- first thing that came to mind when reading the first post. Maybe that is why Patagonia makes the Cap1with a slick finish. I don't have quite the same drag problem with Power Stretch.

My layering scheme is close to the same:

Tops:
Base layer
Power Stretch hoodie or vest
First Ascent Igniter or Patagonia Micro Puff vest
Houdini windshirt
2.5 layer rain shell or poncho


Bottoms:
Briefs
Silkweight long johns (as needed)
Zip-off nylon pants or light soft shells
2.5 layer rain pants

Babak. I'm seriously considering the Atom. I'm pretty slim though. I think the SV may be the way to go, due to the lack of my natural insulation.

Thx Chris. I'll look into the Arcteryx today. I really like the Rab, but I'm not married to any piece of gear. So the Arc may be the way to go.

Dale. I went to the local trail shop and tried on the exact shirt you are speaking of. Worked like a charm, and I had my (please come back after Christmas 20%) coupon now I have to go pick up an Arc shirt and try what Chris said. So after I dial this thing in I'm gonna be dumping a ton of stuff on Gear Swap. lol.


And now after reading another thread I'm ordering a MEC hoody this afternoon.

Thanks again guys for all your posts.

Edited by MatthewBrown on 01/26/2012 06:40:00 MST.

I have both the LT and the SV. The SV is probably the most versatile piece I own.

I actually prefer it over my beloved Patagonia Hooded Down Sweater