@Dustin,

I thought I had made it clear in my last couple of posts that I clearly understood the difference between movement and sitting on my butt in the cold? I know there is a major difference there and I am not disputing the fact. My comparison was with wearing what I have, WHILE sitting idle at camp last weekend and not being cold at night, in approx 20-25' weather with very strong winds. I will just have to experience the difference between 0, 15 and 25' then because I generally don't notice the difference unless I'm doing something not-so-bright like taking out the trash in gym shorts and a t-shirt when its 15' and snowing. The second comment was in regards to replacing any existing layer with something warmer, if I did that than I would indeed overheat while on the move so it needs to be an addition, not a replacement is what I was getting at.

And I am quite tolerant of the cold. And I don't mean that in some sort of manly 'hah this isn't cold at all! while I get frostbite on my feet' sort of way. I literally mean it in the way that it has to be pretty cold for the weather to beat my natural body heat, even when sitting still (but especially true when moving). And if I have been moving it takes a while to truly cool down let alone get cold. Though I do agree with your sentiment of the real origin of the word 'frigid' and I have experienced such cold while skiing a cpl years ago so I know what it means to be 'under geared' in the outdoors. My whole group was a bit under prepared for how cold it was but obviously it was good that we were just at a resort and not out in the back woods. If we had I certainly would have packed warm clothes but I digress.

This is still slightly moot in the sense that I have already concluded that I will be getting one from each category to use in varying temperatures as needed (not necessarily together). A cap3/4 and a puffy (like a Montbell Alpine? which has been suggested a few times I think).

@

I posted it a bit earlier and am only just getting used to the forum profile here but I am in Colorado. I do intend to try it in my backyard so to speak it just wont get truly cold enough to test this week but I will still try to be sure.

Edited by OCPik4chu on 01/18/2012 16:42:18 MST.

Ok then Id say this all but wraps up this thread and I greatly appreciate all the feedback and apologize if I sounded like a belligerent turd at times, lol. But one last question/issue. I was primarily looking at the montbell alpine light jacket, seemed well recommended and it was the right price for me and is of good quality. The problem has come with trying to find it for sale from a reputable dealer. backcountry, and amazon dont have any reasonable selection( I need a large and would like blue or black..). e-omc has terrible reviews and moosejaw seems hit or miss for customer experience. Anyone know of a good place to check to buy it from or any good alternatives? And the GoLite Summit 800 is out of stock in the right size so that one is out. :(

I've had very good experiences with campsaver.com. They have a good selection of MontBell, reasonable return policies and fast service. The jacket you want is available at their site. They periodically put last year's MontBell on sale as well. Unfortunately, the 20% off coupons from campsaver generally exclude MontBell items.
Jim

Greg, sorry if I came off cranky, I probably was (new semester with too short a winter break and slight illness make me very unpleasant). I also didn't realize you are from Colorado which makes me believe your non-macho cold tolerance considerably more.

I have one last recommendation, for pants. Someone mentioned Arc'Teryx Ramparts and I just wanted to second that rec. I love mine, about 8 oz in a 30/32. They have decent wind protection and water repellency but are very light. They'd work great under snow pants. I wear mine year round (tights underneath if cold) and they survive even the desert cat claw without a hint of wear and tear. I can even climb in them with full leg mobility (but I'm not yoga flexible so YMMV).

They are expensive, but often you can find them around $70 at REI. These are my go to pants, even in the AZ summer. They're a bit warm above 90F for my heat tolerant self but starting at those temperatures even a kilt or birthday suit can't stop you from sweating...

Again sorry from the grumpiness and an alpine light will probably serve you well. Golite is having a sale and has their Roan Parka for a steal (not the lightest but noticeably warmer than the alpine light with a clo of ~3.5+ vs 2.5 for the Alpine Light) or the Bitterroot which is pricey even on sale but at 13 oz with 5.2oz of 850 down should have a clo of 3.25+!

@Dustin its no problem and I realized I was sounding a bit stubborn too. As for the options I checked out the Golite sale and unfortunately all they had left was an XL or I probably would have grabbed it. I went with the alpine light from Campsaver, had god reviews so will see how that goes (and seems I just got shipping confirmation, very nice!). I also want to apologize for overestimating the cap3. The pictures/description and reviews made it sound like a nice thick fleece-like mid-layer but after seeing it in the store I doubt it gives as much warmth as my ColdGear, so my apologies to those of you who said otherwise and I didn't believe you haha.

As for the pants I went for a pair of the Sahara's from REI, they were having a sale and I got a pair for just $29 so cant really argue with that. Going skiing this weekend so they will be going under the snow pants for the first test to see how well they breathe. And we will see how long they last. It turns out I may be able to go to Philmont this year with our troop so if that happens that will be a true test of them but I don't think it will happen. Either way I'm anxious to try out these new pieces and I'm glad I picked this site to post to :)

Oh man, if you're new to this site you're in for a trip.

I had just started backpacking and was curious about Make Your Own Gear to save some money on equipment when I stumbled on BPL. Yeah, I'm hooked. The amount of information on the forums and in the articles is impressive. There are a lot of engineer types on this site to perform pretty rigorous experiments on gear. Just look at some of Richard Nisley's and Roger Caffin's posts on water proof products or insulation value of gear.

The information can be daunting at first, but if you just keep chipping away at the old forum posts you'll make it through the learning curve.

I debated posting back in this thread since it has been a while but I did want to say that I was able to put the jacket to the test recently (including this last weekend) and I loved it, worked perfectly under my ski jacket for warmth around camp and even during the day around the camp during low/no activity Temps during the night were <10 and during the day stayed under 20 with light snow and moderate wind the whole time. I stayed just a perfect temperature. The only issue came in the night, which told me two things, 1) need more on the bottom half but not too much. 2) my sleeping bag, isn't anywhere close to being even a 30' bag anymore lol, not by a long shot...

So just throwing out another thank you to those who contributed to this thread before. And hopefully this isn't too much of a 'necro post':)

LIke Chris, I also use a MHW Monkeyman fleece under my snowboard shell. This fleece breathes very well. I also have a nano puff as a mid-layer too. I find the Nano Puff gets very warm when exercising.