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Thom Kendall
(kendalltf) - F

Locale: IL
Reverse Gear List on 01/19/2007 19:33:29 MST Print View

After reading about the lady who "survived" two weeks in the wilderness the wheels in my brain started turning. I have read many gear list and suggestions but I wish to ask this question a little backwords. What would you NEED to live/survive for two weeks in the wilderness?

Mike Barney
(eaglemb) - F

Locale: AZ, the Great Southwest!
Re: Reverse Gear List on 01/19/2007 20:29:30 MST Print View

Southern Arizona in the summer, Pikes Peak in the winter, or somewhere else in the spring?

Einstein X
(EinsteinX) - F

Locale: The Netherlands
Re: Reverse Gear List on 01/20/2007 04:14:36 MST Print View

"What would you NEED to live/survive for two weeks in the wilderness?"

About 2500 Cal/day x 14 days = 35000 Calories.
Add to that a shelter, sleeping bag, sleepingpad and a waterfilter and your pretty well on your way in surviving for two weeks.

I guess a book would be nice if you stay put for two weeks like the lady did.

Now in Vietnam they found a woman that survived for 18 years in the jungle, now that's a different story. You'd need about 16,4 X 10^6 Cal. If you'd keep those 2500 Cal/day at 1.5 pounds we'd be talking about 9.86 x 10^3 lbs or 4.47 metric tons of food. UF!

:+ Eins

Edited by EinsteinX on 01/20/2007 04:15:46 MST.

John S.
(jshann) - F
Re: Reverse Gear List on 01/20/2007 07:09:29 MST Print View

Shelter, warmth, and water. Food would help.

Laurence Daniels
(GNR) - F

Locale: Boston
Calories on 01/20/2007 07:28:46 MST Print View

Hey Einstein,

I've always to start a post with that.

Anyway, how are you coming up with 2500cal/day? I'm interested because it seems high to me. A quick google search came up with a calculator for calorie needs of a human being, allowing for variables such as gender, age, weight and activity level. If a woman, 5' tall, weighing 140lbs was only "lightly active",(however, this is defined) as one might be waiting for rescue, the calculator reported that she would need 1768 cal/day to not lose any weight.

I have no idea about my source(how stuff, but rationing food, to me, also entails rationing energy, which is why the 'lightly active' part is important.

I am still curious about your idea for 2500 cal/day and the source of your idea.

Einstein X
(EinsteinX) - F

Locale: The Netherlands
Re: Calories on 01/20/2007 08:52:41 MST Print View

Hey Laurence,

The question asked what would YOU need to survive. I'm 26, BMI 22,9 and fat% 12%. I need about 2500 Cal/day. That's also what an 'average' male needs. Indeed, a woman needs less; about 2000 Cal/day for an 'average' female. I would be able to survive for two weeks on as little as 1000 Cal/day, possibly less, but i don't intend to find out.

The question stated: what would YOU need to survive. If i could choose I'd rather have 2500 Cal/day available to me.

In no way was me reply serious, hence the clown smily :+ at the end.


EDIT: the source of 2500 Cal/day is just a rule of thumb you can find most anywhere.

Also note the use of cal and Cal. Cal (with capital C) = 1000 cal IIRC.

Edited by EinsteinX on 01/20/2007 08:54:58 MST.

mark henley
(flash582) - F
What would you need? on 01/20/2007 09:59:26 MST Print View

I guess I have a different perspective ....

What do you NEED?

Access to water, good health, and keep your wits about you.

Your priorities, in order are .....

1.)Thermoregulation. You have to keep your core temperature regulated ... cool in the heat and warm in the cold. Learn how to build a basic shelter and how to build a fire. Let me repeat that .... basic shelter and fire. Camp on hillsides, ridges are windy and cold air falls to lowest ground. You can break grainy rocks on each other to make a basic knife. Vines and bark strips can make basic cordage.

2.) Hydration. Two days, three if your not active and pushing it, is the limit without water. lick the dew off leaves if you have to. Old beer/pop cans, bottles, or other trash can make containers to boil water in if necesssary.

3.) Navigation. There's not a mountain range in the US that you can't hike out of in 5 days if you know where you're at and how to find your way. Basics like ... which direction does the sun come up and go down in, Which star is the north star, how to read a map and compass.

4.) Food - last priority ... even someone with 15% bodyfat can survive without food for three weeks. The average for people in the US is a Body Fat percentage in the 20's. That can push to four weeks without permanent organ damage if you conserve energy and fat. Survival food is abundant in the wild ... insects, grubs, earthworms, minnows, and learn the univeral edible test for plants. Even the bark of many trees is edible. It's not particularly tasty, but native american people lived on this stuff for thousands of years when they needed to, like in harsh winters.

The most important thing is the one thing this survivor had in abundance .... a positive mental outlook. Without it people will just lay down and die. You have to stay positive and stay alert.

A tent, Sleeping bag, and a good knife are certainly upsides.

Thom Kendall
(kendalltf) - F

Locale: IL
Re: Reverse Gear List on 01/20/2007 19:48:18 MST Print View

My area of hiking/camping is the northeast. To weed it down let us say late spring to early fall below tree line. I found it interesting how some you seem to rely on "gear" (food brought, water, book?) and others more to the basics of skill. I had an old (literal) Native American tell me that when I could enter the woods with nothing but the clothes on my back and a good knife I would begin to realize what it is to live in the wilderness. This may be the wrong forum to discuss such a topic but how many of you know how to find food if you lose your supply? How many of you know the best water to drink if you do not have access to purification? Just some things to think about.

mark henley
(flash582) - F
The art of nothing on 01/20/2007 20:13:40 MST Print View

There are a series of three DVD's sold by a really nice guy in Montana named Tom Elpel. In two of the DVD's he takes a different daughter camping in the mountains taking nothing but the clothes on their backs. In the other one, His older cousin goes with him on a weekend camping trip to the mountains with just the clothes on their back and the dog.

Unlike other "survival" type like DVD's I've seen and/or heard about, Mr. Elpel focuses not on survival, but just camping and having fun in the great outdoors. The DVD's aren't ready for hollywood by any means, but I highly recommend them for anyone spending time in the great outdoors. They demonstrate that you don't need as much as you think you do to hit the trail.

You quickly realize, after watching one of his video's, that being in the woods with no gear is actually a pretty natural thing.

Google "The art of nothing" to get to his website.

Gabriel Rice
(GRice) - F
Re: The art of nothing on 01/21/2007 13:57:36 MST Print View

As an ex wilderness survival counselor part of the reason why I feel so safe going ultralight is because I know that even with that 5-7 pound basweight I know that I can get by with just two items out of my pack that being my knife and flint. Its fun to apply that knowledge into your backpacking as well so next time you are out instead of packing prepackaged tea try some pine tea instead, if this is something that interests you start taking babysteps and one day you might be knowledgeable and skilled enough to feel safe in the woods with nothing but a knife and the clothes on your back.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: The art of nothing on 01/21/2007 14:49:47 MST Print View

> one day you might be knowledgeable and skilled enough to feel safe in the woods with nothing but a knife and the clothes on your back.

True, BUT ... It does no harm when a few skilled people do it occasionally.
Can you imagine what a mess it would make if we had HORDES of people doing this?
Scarce native food resources would be stripped.
Vegetation would be stripped as everyone made a nice large bush shelter for themselves.
There would be wild-fires everywhere as people lost control.
There would be a continuous stream of SAR and helicopters bailing out the novices.

Yes, the most skilled 1% can do it. Just don't let the hordes of mainstream novices in!

Elitist? NO WAY! Conservationist - Leave No Trace!

mark henley
(flash582) - F
Survival vs martial arts on 01/21/2007 16:06:23 MST Print View

Back in the day when I studied martial arts, I can remember being told that the true art in martial arts is learning not to use your skills unless your very life is threatened.

Survival skills are similar, IMO .... the true art is not having to use them unless the S_it hits the rotating air moving device.

But the knowledge and skills give you the freedom to travel safely with a 5 lb baseweight and be comfortable with your stove, shelter, bag, and freezer bag dinners, secure in the knowledge that you can do without if necessary. Carrying your own gear and food is not just LNT, it's just better for our already stressed wild areas.

I have been known to pick a few blackberrys, mulberrys, and even a prickly pear or two from time to time. I've also eaten my share of mountain stream trout to suplement my freezer bag meals.

I'll even give some pine needle tea a try next weekend, when I'm out and about.

Gabriel Rice
(GRice) - F
Re: Re: Re: The art of nothing on 01/21/2007 19:31:37 MST Print View

Yes and chances are HORDES wont wake up tomorrow and decide to put themselves in that sort of condition just for fun, also my reccomendation to anyone that actually wants to learn these kinds of skills is to get training from a professional, any other situation is just stupid except for the knowledgeable and well skilled outdoorsman, and every good school that teaches these skills also teaches the values of trying to give back more then you take as often as possible. What I was trying to say is that its best to take babysteps, every time you are out try to look at a plant and see what possible uses it could have in that sort of condition, try to find the best locations for a shelter or possible sources of food, so even though you are not in that sort of condition if you ever find yourself in one you already have some of the mindset and believe me that will take care of half the problem.

Edited by GRice on 01/21/2007 19:34:10 MST.