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How has the change been?
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Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
Halt on 01/20/2012 12:35:57 MST Print View

Take it to chaff with the derail please.

Brian UL

Locale: New England
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How has the change been? on 01/20/2012 12:59:44 MST Print View

"Which one of Milton's writings would you recommend as most clearly stating what you attribute to him -- i.e., where he led you to believe those things you describe?"

pick one.

The entire neo con capitalist position is based on the assumption of a meritocracy. If you work hard you will succeed, if you don't succeed then you must not be working hard. You get paid according to your worth. If you are paid very low its because you are nearly worthless and so on, I don't need to catch milton actually using those derogatory words. He believes it, its part of his and thus many Americans belief system.
He is the StPaul of the ruling class. He is against the minimum wage.


Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How has the change been? on 01/20/2012 14:03:53 MST Print View

CHAFF: brian, being against the minimum wage is good. Minimum wage decreased employment and has a negative effect on those it is purported to ty and help. Heck, if nothing else the support of minimum wage increases by unions should tell you enough. they want to increase their competition's pay thereby lowering the incentive to hire non-union employees.

Richard Scruggs
(JRScruggs) - MLife

Locale: Oregon
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How has the change been? on 01/20/2012 14:30:21 MST Print View

Re: "The entire neo con capitalist position is based on the assumption of a meritocracy."

What in the world is a "neo con capitalist" anyway?

And what's wrong with meritocracy? The alternative to earning what you want seems to be taking what you want from others. That's better?

Guess I'll buy any one of Milton's books and see if he says stuff you claim.

Thought you might be able to refer me to whichever of his books best exemplifies your interpretations and characterizations of his writings.

And since this is all chaff, far removed from BPL's policy changes, this is my last posting inquiring about your theories.

Addie Bedford
(addiebedford) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Forgive me on 01/20/2012 14:58:32 MST Print View

Thread drift aside (and I've moved this to Chaff), I was not intending to be snide about nonsubscribers in my original post. I was simply trying to convey that BPL Staff have recently discussed the change and opted to stick with keeping Gear Swap for paying members.

I've had delightful (DELIGHTFUL!) interactions with nonmembers, and I'm not trying to second-guess their decision to remain that way. However, for the purposes of BPL paying for, well, BPL, nonmembers have chosen not to have input other than their opinion. Those opinions are valid, but they cannot pay hosting, wages, electricity, etc. That is all I was trying to communicate.

Finally, BPL is discussing the viability of adding shorter subscription time frames (one month, three months, in addition to the one year and lifetime options) to ease in folks who might otherwise be on the fence, or who maybe have a pile of gear they'd like to sell one month without necessarily having the full year's sub. That is still in nebulous "Wouldn't it be great if?" discussion, but it's worth throwing out there.

Now, please have a lovely weekend, doing cheerful things that make your hearts beat faster. I am attending a read-around of Harry Potter & the Sorcerer's Stone with my son: proficient readers each get a part, we take turns being the narrator, and we enjoy Hogwarts-themed snacks and sips while reading. It will be Blake's first foray into that realm of witchcraft and wizardry (and I hope he enjoys the story-telling while not identifying TOO much with the death of Harry's parents).

ben wood

Locale: flatlands of MO
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: wage slave: perceived poverty on 01/20/2012 21:56:44 MST Print View

"As to "wage slave," that would describe me when I was young. I had no salable skills, so my wage earning potential was limited. I did something about it, and others do not. The term does not bother me... actually I am proud of what I did to get out of that situation"

i am proud of you Nick, and i'm not being sarcastic at all. I am in the midst of "doing something about it" at this stage in my life. Making changes like that in your life is hard work and anyone who is actively bettering themselves on a daily basis should be commended.

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
wage slave on 01/20/2012 22:30:40 MST Print View

>"I am in the midst of "doing something about it" at this stage in my life."

I went back to school at age 46 for my bachelor's degree. A friend's father went back to school after a long career as a dentist. And obtained his next 7 degrees.

David Maxwell

Locale: eastern, tn
Minimum Wage on 01/21/2012 08:45:35 MST Print View

Sorry for drifting from the op .... I just have to ask though ... Won't raising the minimum wage make the price of goods go up? And if so, wouldn't that hurt the people making minimum wage? If they have to pay more for goods and services they would lose in the long run and be worse off...

ben wood

Locale: flatlands of MO
Re: wage slave on 01/21/2012 09:14:19 MST Print View

david, thanks man. yeah i'm 33 going to school and i have to young kids, 4 and 6. but its good, and rewarding.

Diplomatic Mike

Locale: Under a bush in Scotland
Not a nice thread on 01/21/2012 09:23:44 MST Print View

I'm sorry, but this thread seems to be full of smug, shallow and superior type folk. Maybe they were bullied at school?
Some of us are happy to earn just enough.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Not a nice thread on 01/21/2012 09:28:31 MST Print View

I think "wage slave" isn't derogatory.

Applicable for most people.

Not implying there's anything wrong with choosing a lower paying job that you enjoy.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Minimum Wage on 01/21/2012 09:33:05 MST Print View

"Won't raising the minimum wage make the price of goods go up?"

If you look at total population of spenders the average wage will increase only a little so maybe prices will go up a little

But lower wage people will have a bigger increase in wages than the increase of prices

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: All up in there
Re: Not a nice thread on 01/21/2012 09:35:14 MST Print View

Wage slave, Derogatory IMO

People who talk too much about their belongings, deep pockets, and such stink of new money.
The old money keeps their mouth shut on such subject. No faster way to make people dislike you is putting yourself on a pedestal to look down from.

Back to the original subject. I thank Addie for getting back to me and answering my question.

ben wood

Locale: flatlands of MO
Re: Not a nice thread on 01/21/2012 09:42:24 MST Print View


sorry if anything i said offended you or anyone else here. I think that if someone desires a change in their life (be it education, income amount up or down, spending amount, diet, exercise, general goodness in some way, etc.,) and sees it through, that is a good thing.

by changing my situation i don't think i am better than anyone else, I just see positive change on a daily basis. growth if you will.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Not a nice thread on 01/21/2012 09:45:11 MST Print View

"Wage slave, Derogatory IMO"

The PR people say that if someone considers an act harassment (or whatever) then it's harassment and you shouldn't do it.

I'll stop using it

Diplomatic Mike

Locale: Under a bush in Scotland
Wage slave on 01/21/2012 09:53:18 MST Print View

I don't find the phrase 'wage slave' insulting, it's the way certain folk use it. I don't think i'm better (or worse) than anyone else, but certain folk seem to think they have 'improved' themselves by leaving the smelly mob behind.
Look at yourself before you judge others.
There are a lot of nice folk on here, but there are also a few blind and obnoxious folk.

David Lutz

Locale: Bay Area
Minimum wage on 01/21/2012 10:13:30 MST Print View

Raising the minimum wage almost always applies only to entry-level positions. It is equivalent to raising the price of labor.

Demand for labor, particularly in entry-level positions, is generally elastic.

Raising the price of labor for low-wage earners reduces the demand for low-wage earners.

Labor statistics are a snapshot in time. They don't collect the names of the people in any given slot. Low-wage entry level positions are not intended as long-term employment positions. People are generally in these positions for a short period of time while they develop new skills and move up or move on, to be replaced by the next person hoping to do the same.

In other words, these aren't all the same people at this income level year after year. Or even month after month.

Maybe you're a Mom or Dad looking to supplement the household income, a college student home for the summer or dirt-bag hiker raising money for your next thru. Low-wage easy in-and-out jobs fill these needs perfectly. Raising the wage reduces the opportunities.

And speaking of reducing opportunities, now they want to prohibit unpaid internships. Unbelievable. Programs that work for everybody involved ruined.

Diplomatic Mike

Locale: Under a bush in Scotland
Unpaid? on 01/21/2012 10:17:34 MST Print View

OK David. You think a minimum wage is bad. You think folk working as unpaid interns is a good thing.
What do you do, and how much do you earn? Just so i can see the impartial direction you are coming from.

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: All up in there
Re: Minimum wage on 01/21/2012 10:26:47 MST Print View

Let's remember that the minimum wage is only to cover food and clothing. Not to actually "live" on it. Exist yes.

I like what comedian Chris Rock had to say about minimum wage employers. We would pay you less but we can't.

I got a boss like that.

Diplomatic Mike

Locale: Under a bush in Scotland
Work on 01/21/2012 10:30:14 MST Print View

I've worked in a place where times have been tight. The boss has said, either you all take a pay cut, or the last man in has to go.
How would you vote?