In the market for a winter pack for carrying more gear than my little ULA CDT. I go backcountry ski/camping and hope to venture into mountaineering.

What pack do you use that has enough space for stuff, including biggies like:
Cold weather sleeping bag (0 degree)
Skis
Shovel
Axe, etc

Skis and the shovel are more likely to wear through gossamer fabrics/straps. How lightweight is practical?
I'm currently looking at the Osprey Exos 58.

"How lightweight is practical?"

I've used a Golite Breeze for years for winter stuff.

That is actually one of the good things about doing a ski hut trip. Since you will likely be sleeping inside where there is a stove, you don't need tremendously warm gear. The gear just needs to keep you alive should you be forced into a snow bivouac. So, for huts, you can go with a smaller pack.

--B.G.--

Hi Bob,
I actually like (and plan) to combine both hut and tent use. So I want to be able to have capacity for tent, cold weather bag, sleeping pad(s) etc...
Also, my ULA Conduit has a hard time in the summer when I have to carry a bear-bin and possibly my partners' gear.

Bob - how do you carry your skis on the GoLite Breeze?

"Bob - how do you carry your skis on the GoLite Breeze?"

I like to keep the skis on my boots. They work better that way.

On the rare occasions when there is no snow, I carry the skis by grasping both bindings in one hand.

When I plan to be snow camping, I use a sleeping bag rated for either -10 F or -20 F. When I plan to be in a hut, I use a sleeping bag rated for +32 F. That's a big difference in weight and bulk.

--B.G.--

Bob - I suspect that your experience would likely describe 90% of what I would do with this pack. And that planning to hand carrying skis actually makes good sense most of the time.

I do, however, aspire to do some mountaineering. Perhaps start with a Shasta climb or a class in Spring. Figure that might require carrying skis on the pack, shovel, etc.

"Perhaps start with a Shasta climb or a class in Spring."

For Shasta, you want a backpack that has a very tough bottom.

If you get a gigantic pack, then you will be too tempted to fill it up. Then the weight and bulk may defeat you on some important climb.

I took a 3000 cubic inch pack up Shasta one time, at least as far as high camp. Overnight, while in the tent, I had anchored the pack to the snow with my ice axe. Unfortunately, a wilderness ranger had been walking around, pulled up MY ice axe to move some ice, then replaced it into the surface, but the pack was no longer anchored down. The wind blew it away overnight. [That, in itself, is a testament to how lightweight it was.] All I had left was a flimsy daypack, so it had to serve me for the rest of the trip. I had to drag my expedition tent on a tether.

--B.G.--

I am using a Golite pinnacle and like it. I believe it has the kind of capacity you are looking for and would be durable enough for ski carry though probably not lots of extended use that way. The potential problem with your stated end use would be the subjective comfort limit of 30-35 lbs. If you are loaded up with full ski mountaineering gear, even lightweight stuff I wouldn't think you could get more than a couple days of food and fuel in it. You should do a search on here, their was a thread about light mountaineering packs fairly recently Mchale, Cilo gear, WT, Maybe HMG, etc.

Get a pack from Mystery Ranch. Designed for skiing/backcountry travel and indestructible - and the best carry I've ever worn on skis. Heavy by BPL standards but absolutely worth it.

Richard

Mystery Ranch is interesting - nice too see some alternative designs, but I'm not interested in swinging so far from my style of backpacking. I like a single, cavernous pocket, and I generally resist zippers - let alone 3 of them.

Gary - I don't quite understand what you're getting at. Are you suggesting a pack but then saying it might not fit what I'm looking for?

I still have an old Gregory Reality with a rubberized 'butt' (that weighs in at a healthy 4.5 lbs without the top cover) as a backup if I really want to abuse something. The bag I'm searching for has more features than what I'm used to on my ULA (which works great when I want to be minimalist).

I looked at HMG a bit, but I need more features, and the prices on those pretty basic looking packs seems astronomical. I realize they're made in the USA (at least I think), but...

Will likely start with the Osprey Exos 58 from REI and if it doesn't work out that's easy to fix.

Thanks for all the input.

Simon said "Mystery Ranch is interesting - nice too see some alternative designs, but I'm not interested in swinging so far from my style of backpacking. I like a single, cavernous pocket, and I generally resist zippers - let alone 3 of them."

Have a look at the Mystery Ranch Trance as it only has one main body accessible from the top and a removable top pocket. There are no zippers on the main bag.

http://www.mysteryranch.com/recreation/backpacking-packs/trance-xxx-pack

I am huge fan of Cold Cold World Packs-- take a look. Various sizes depending upon what you need.

Never heard of Cold cold world before but their products seem worth a look. The packs look like the should be heavy but register at moderate weights - likely due to not having any rigid frame/stays.

Know any shops that carry them? Would love to see them in person.

And, I think this is a fantastic quote (pulled from their website).

...I consider that if everybody were given the chance of undergoing similar experiences they would acquire a much better comprehension of themselves and others. They might also understand that humanity has changed and no longer knows how to live. As though it has gone crazy, it constantly imprisons itself in it's own myths and ambitions, rushing from one servitude to another. Man seems to be positively at pains to dehumanize himself, to abandon all that is most positive in his nature....A glance at our society is almost enough to make one long for a more primitive state of being.... What does it help us to possess all that progress has placed at our service when we have lost all sense of the meaning of things and even of life itself?"

          Walter Bonatti, "The Great Days"  1971

Since I can't quite afford to move to UL gear yet, my normal gear weight is probably considered "winter" weight at 35lbs.(including water+food).
If someone isn't looking for an UL pack, I always recommend looking into the Deuter line of products. I love my ACT lite 65+10 for it's comfort and plenty of storage space. My wife has the woman's version and loves hers as well.
They are pretty reasonably priced at under $200. Walk around REI with one loaded with as much weight as you plan to carry and see what you think. I did that with every pack at REI and found the Deuter to be the most comfortable for that carry weight. But of course what is comfortable for me may not be for you.

here's what i would pack +/- a couple of items for 4+1 days when expecting 0*F. it's a 40l pack.





for ski and shovel carry you can either strap them on or get the dedicated ski carrier and shovel pocket.

I like the Pursuit, Quest, Odyssey series of packs. The frame sheet is nice when my heavier technical gear is attached to the pack, and easily removable when it is not. I have the Pursuit for weekends and Odyssey for bigger trips. I don't think the make the pursuit anymore but it is still findable.

Very simple packs, good mix of durable and lightish weight. The Odyssey is better for weight to volume ratio becuase it is a volume monster and just under 3lbs. The 2 of 3 I have are built basically the same just scaled for the different volumes.

Simon

I apologize for the lack of clarity. I think the pinnacle(2 lbs,1 oz 4400 CI) could be a good pack for your use depending on how much weight you will carry and your personal comfort limits with frameless packs. I have personally used this pack for ski touring and it performed very well as a lightweight winter pack. I have not carried skis or a full complement of mountaineering gear with it therefore I cannot give a reccomendation without qualification. Much of my winter insulation and all of my mountaineering gear is older and at fairly traditional weights so I would not use my Pinnacle for that type of trip. I think that someone with a full UL setup could use this pack and be happy with it which is why I tossed it in the ring. Anyway I am probably just further muddying the waters so I will leave it at that. I hope you find something that works for you.

I've used the Pinnacle for ski touring, it's actually the pack I still use. It's fine for packing the skis. I usually carry full mountaineerig equipment except rope, harness and related stuff.
If anything, I'd need a bit more volume for easier packing but I must say the CCF pad I use (a Gossamer Gear Nightlite 3/4) eats quite a lot of that volume, it'd be much easier with the pad outside but I like the compactness of carrying it inside and the rigidity it provides that way. I'd also welcome a thicker, more comfortable padding in the shoulder straps but find it acceptable as it comes.

I'll evaluate it with my gear when it arrives.
According to the ULA-Equipment.com site, my Conduit's main pocket is 2100 cu-in, which is 34 liters.
This is a small pack - any time I'm forced to carry a bear bin, I and up strapping a stuff to the top. And I only use it for 3 seasons.

The Exos 46 is 35% larger, and the Exos 58 is is 70% larger. I'm not sure if this liter capacity includes the additional pockets - I suspect it does not (including the floating top).
I'd worry that an additional 35% of the Exos 46 wouldn't be enough to accomodate my extra gear in the winter. However, perhaps with the additional volume of the floating top and the other smaller pockets, it would be...

While I've gotten a lot of great recommendations, I still don't feel certain which pack is right. So, I've decided to buy something I can get from REI so I know that I can try it out and return it if it's not right. (I wish I had gotten the Ohm instead of the CDT from ULA...)

Forgive me if I think in pack volume units of cubic inches rather than liters. My old rule of thumb is that I need roughly 1000 cubic inches of volume for each 10 pounds of load. So, if I was thinking in terms of a 35-pound load, then I would select my 3500 cubic inch pack.

For winter and due to the extra insulation bulk, I generally select my pack around 4000 cubic inches despite the weight being 28-30 pounds. For summer and due to the lack of anything really bulky (with the possible exception of a bear can), I can keep it around 2000 cubic inches for a total weight of 20 pounds or less.

For one high expedition, I had to carry loads of around 60 pounds, so I selected a big 6000 cubic inch pack. I'm glad I don't have to do that again.

Many of the REI stores have a set of sandbags located in the backpack department, and you can start from the volume and work your way toward the weight, or you can start from the weight and work your way toward the volume. The same stores sell bear canisters of a known volume, so you can ask to slip one of those into a pack that you are selecting.

I've known guys who were all fired up to keep their pack size unusually small. Then they remembered all of the extra winter stuff that they needed to carry. They ended up lashing this and that all over the outside of the pack. I guess that is acceptable, but it gets bad results when you are skiing and balance is critical. Then something pops off the lashing and is lost.

--B.G.--

While I've gotten a lot of great recommendations, I still don't feel certain which pack is right. So, I've decided to buy something I can get from REI so I know that I can try it out and return it if it's not right. (I wish I had gotten the Ohm instead of the CDT from ULA...)

if you are unsure, thats the best decision IMO ...

at least yr absolutely confident youll get yr moneys worth one way or another ...