Normally when hiking or backpacking, my primary mode of carrying water is a bladder and hose in my pack. However, this system obviously doesn't work very well in the winter (where even the insulated CamelBak hoses freeze within a few minutes). My solution for this thus far has been to put very warm water in my bladder before setting out, but pee warm water is not very refreshing when hiking, and this is a temporary solution at best.

As a result, I've been looking at getting some sort of insulated garment to wear while hiking that has water bottle pockets on the inside to keep my water from freezing. Normally my winter night hikes or backpacks are at temperatures of about 0-20 degrees F, so it's still way too warm to go hiking around in a belay parka or down jacket, which are the garments that commonly have these pockets.

Hence my question: Does anyone know of any lightly insulating jackets (200 weight fleece or the equivilent) with a full front zip and internal water bottle pockets? Something that is fairly warm, but breathable enough to wear while working up a sweat? Or am I overlooking a better / simpler solution? I've done some searching but come up empty. Thanks.

You wrote above, "... pee warm water is not very refreshing when hiking".

I cannot agree more!

Kidding aside, I've seen jackets with large interior pockets, but those are more for urban wear. Maybe someone will recommend something, but if not, I think it should be pretty simple to sew two toggles or a flap of material inside your existing fleece jacket to hold up the water bladder...

How about a pack you wear under your jacket?

http://www.ebags.com/camelbak/snobowl_trade_closeout/product_detail/index.cfm?modelid=46216

>> Kidding aside, I've seen jackets with large interior pockets, but those are more for urban wear. Maybe someone will recommend something, but if not, I think it should be pretty simple to sew two toggles or a flap of material inside your existing fleece jacket to hold up the water bladder...

First, to clarify, I'm just looking for something that will hold bottles (Nalgene, etc.), in low chest pockets, as is fairly common in heavier cold weather gear, not my water bladder. I had thought of adding some to an existing jacket, but my sewing skills are... well, I have no sewing skills. I could probably find someone who does alterations to do it, though. Thanks for the suggestion!

> How about a pack you wear under your jacket?

Mostly when I'm hiking I'll already be wearing a 30 - 40 pound pack, so wearing one of those on my back under my jacket might not be ideal, but an interesting suggestion none the less. I wonder if one of those (or a Platy bladder) could be rigged to hang low on the chest between the sternum and waist straps of a pack... then just shorten the hose a bit... I don't know if it would work or not, but it might be worth a try.. It would even provide weight on the front to help balance the pack weight (like those Body Pack things (Aarn maybe?)). Thanks for the idea!

Edited by james481 on 01/18/2007 18:00:34 MST.

You could get one of those webbing or cloth water bottle carriers designed to attach to the outside of a pack and than just sling it on a loop of flat webbing around your neck or over your shoulder.

>First, to clarify, I'm just looking for something that will hold bottles


Instead of keeping the water warm inside your jacket, how about just insulating the bottle? I made cozies for my Nalgene Cantenes (and hard-bottles) from a 3/8" sleeping pad (1-liter cozy: 1.5 oz; 1.5-liter cozy: 2.0oz). The water doesn't freeze, even if I leave it in an outside pocket of my pack. I also use the cozy to keep my freeze-dried meal pouch warm while the food is rehydrating. Then, after I've melted water for the next day, I shove the bottle+cozy upside down in the snow and there is never more than a skim of ice in it the next morning.

Edited by Otter on 01/18/2007 23:14:06 MST.

Couple of other ideas:

Make a sling - kind of like a baby sling to wear under your jacket.

Duct tape some pads to make a sleeve for your bladder. When you finish drinking blow the water back into the bladder.

Add sports drink to your water to lower the freezing point.

Attach shock cord and cord lock bottle holders to suspenders, but the shoulder straps might get in the way.

James,

Three part answer:

1. Couple months ago Andrew Skurka was fishing for questions to answer in an "Ask Us" column that BPL will be running. You might want to generalize the question a little ("How do you handle water in below freezing conditions?") and offer it for the column.


2. For this thread, pls define "winter" ... temp range.


3. Regarding your idea (pockets inside insulated clothing), I don't think I'd like the weight of the water pulling the clothing tight against my body so I'd look for another way to hang the bottle. But that's just my preference.

Edited by jcolten on 01/20/2007 10:20:23 MST.

I regularly use a Camelbak insulated bladder in temperatures around 10F-20F and I don't have any problems with it. After you take a sip, just blow the remaining water out of the drinking hose and back into the pack. This gets rid of almost all of the water in the hose, and prevents it from freezing shut. The bladder itself freezing has never been a problem for me since it is usually right up against my back, very close to my body, and my body heat is able to keep it warm enough. If you don't already do this, maybe you should give it a try and see if it works for you before you go and rework your entire water setup.

I do that as well, though not just in the winter. In the summer it keeps the water from warming up in the tube. Its always a shock to go for a sip of refreshing water and get a mouthful of hot water.
I just give the valve a bite, but don't suck, and gravity pulls the water back down into the bladder. I find that sometimes I get a little carried away blowing and inflate the bladder like a mattress. Then I have to either turn it upside down and suck the air out or take the bladder out of the pack and squeeze the air out.
You could try sewing a pocket inside your jacket and sliding the bladder in it too. But for me that sounds uncomfortable.

Adam

> Instead of keeping the water warm inside your jacket, how about just insulating the bottle?

In my (rather unfortunate) friend's experience, this isn't a great solution either. He was using one of the OR bottle parkas on the outside of his pack on our last winter night hike. His water turned to slush within about 2 hours (he had filled it with regular - not warm - temperature water), and froze pretty solid by hour four.

> Couple months ago Andrew Skurka was fishing for questions to answer in an "Ask Us" column...

E-mail sent. We'll see what the pros have to say...

> For this thread, pls define "winter" ... temp range.

Sorry, I guess I should have done that originally. My general "winter" night hike sees temperatures of -10 to 10 degrees (F) for a period of 4 - 6 hours.

> Regarding your idea (pockets inside insulated clothing), I don't think I'd like the weight of the water pulling the clothing tight against my body so I'd look for another way to hang the bottle.

After thinking about it more, I agree with this.

> I regularly use a Camelbak insulated bladder in temperatures around 10F-20F and I don't have any problems with it. After you take a sip, just blow the remaining water out of the drinking hose and back into the pack.

Thanks for the suggestion. I actually do this all the time (summer or winter). What I have found is that the bladder itself will, in fact, start to freeze in temps of below 5F or so, especially when you take your pack off for a few minutes at a rest stop (obviously). My friend and I came to the unfortunate conclusion that it takes less than 15 minutes for an entire bladder to freeze almost solid in temps of -5F when the pack isn't on your back. The freezing starts at the hose and bladder junction, and proceeds pretty quickly from there.

Edited by james481 on 01/22/2007 12:39:07 MST.

You might consider carrying a 2L Platy against your back, in place of a pad, if your pack has this type of pad pocket. It would still cushion your back, and the larger volume of water should'nt be able to freeze with your 98'f body against it for hours at a time. I have'nt had time to put this into play on my hikes this season as our weather here in NJ has'nt been that cold.

Putting a bit of salt into your water containers should also lower the freezing point of the water, thus lengthening the time before your bottles freeze out.

I've found the water weight placed in my clothing was'nt comfortable for me YMMV.

I have a Moonstone Cirrus that has a large stretchy pocket inside that holds a 1 liter nalgene. Extrememly bulky and uncomfy but do-able in a pinch. A narrow plastic water bottle (710mls) fits fine. But the best fit was a smaller water bottle of 500 mls. I don't know how it would fit wearing a pack. Luxury Lite also has a front pack for water bottles and maps that might slip under your jacket.

silly thought but..depending on how cold it is, you could boil the water, place it in the bladder and just drink it hot. Throw some lemon in it (True Lemon or lime) or E-mergency(sp?)to make it more palitable.