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Daryl Daryl
(lyrad1) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
Dynamic Reinforcement Patch Testing on 01/01/2012 19:37:22 MST Print View

I performed a dynamic breaking strength test of two reinforcement patches that wrapped around opposing corners of a puke yellow colored piece of 1.9 ounce uncoated ripstop nylon parent fabric.

Photos using my recently acquired $100,000 super-high speed (explosion analysis certified) camera* are shown below:

here

here

here

here

Details,
(1)In one corner, wearing black trunks, is a wrap around patch made of two inch wide adhesive backed insignia cloth with stitching added.
(2)In the other corner, wearing nearly clear trunks(yuk) is a wrap around patch made of two inch wide strapping tape with stitching added.
(3) Third photo shows testing mechanism. A forty pound bag of lime is in the bucket. Lime bucket was lifted approximately 1 foot and dropped during test.
(4) Fourth photo shows what happened.

Conclusions/Findings
This was really fun! I'm sooooooo happy to be retired and to have the time to do this sort of thing.

Other things being equal and given only two choices I would use adhesive backed insignia cloth for corner reinforcements instead of strapping tape.

This concludes my analysis (line stolen from Mr. Bean)

No rights reserved. No copywrite. No patent pending.
*Just kidding about the camera.

Edited by lyrad1 on 01/02/2012 09:02:13 MST.

Dustin Short
(upalachango) - MLife
Parental failure on 01/01/2012 21:19:20 MST Print View

Hmmm...To me it looks like the parent fabric failed at the seem and not the actual patches or tie outs.

The failure was at the seam created by the stitching, why it failed on the strapping tape vs the insignia cloth could be due to a lot of factors. I'd wager the strapping tape is fairly rigid while the adhesive cloth stretches similar to the silnylon.

Thus you could reason that the stiffer tape concentrates the fall force onto the seem between the fabrics and doesn't distribute the load as well, but you'd need more trials to verify.

I'd conjecture that this result probably does not apply to cuben fiber, which has very little stretch. With cuben, assuming the parent fabric also fails before the patches themselves, you'd probably see little difference in which patch fails...the failures relying more on the uniformity of the seem stitching than the fabrics used.

Daryl Daryl
(lyrad1) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
Re: Parental failure on 01/02/2012 09:04:18 MST Print View

Dustin,

What you say makes sense to me.

Daryl

Daryl Daryl
(lyrad1) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
Battle of the bands-part deaux on 01/02/2012 10:35:08 MST Print View

I just tested two adhesive backed insigna cloth reinforcement patches on 1.9 ounce uncoated ripstop parent fabric.

One patch has straight edge on both sides of parent fabric. Other patch has a strait edge on one side of the parent fabric and a rounded edge on the other side of the parent fabric.

here

here

Winner = the one with a rounded leading edge on one side.

I also did several more tests with strap tape and insignia cloth always won. Strap tape has been sent back to the minor leagues.

Observation: Dropping a 40 pound weight makes a heck of a wallop. I can see why gallows are very effective.

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
"Dynamic Reinforcement Patch Testing" on 01/02/2012 10:39:26 MST Print View

"I can see why gallows are very effective."

;-)

Tim Zen
(asdzxc57) - F

Locale: MI
^ on 01/02/2012 11:47:43 MST Print View

6

Edited by asdzxc57 on 01/25/2012 17:51:01 MST.

Daryl Daryl
(lyrad1) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
Re: Re: Battle of the bands-part deaux on 01/02/2012 12:36:01 MST Print View

Timothy,

You said "It just depends where you want your tarp to fail".

I like David Olson's shear pin idea to control where the failing occurs. I could, for example, put a loop of cord on the grossgrain loops that breaks before everything else fails. That cord loop would be easy to replace in the field.

One source I found said the grossgrain has a breaking strength of about 1000 lbs.

Daryl

Daryl Daryl
(lyrad1) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
Parental Control on 01/02/2012 12:38:44 MST Print View

This test matched adhesive backed insignia cloth with a patch made from the parent fabric. Parent fabric won.

here

Tim Zen
(asdzxc57) - F

Locale: MI
d on 01/02/2012 12:52:06 MST Print View

d

Edited by asdzxc57 on 01/25/2012 17:33:21 MST.

David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
Similar results on 01/02/2012 13:38:19 MST Print View

Daryl,

You are getting similar results when I tried such.

It reminds me of fancy steel bike frames where tubes are double or triple butted at the
stress points of the end.

Edited by oware on 01/02/2012 13:45:31 MST.

dan mchale
(wildlife) - MLife

Locale: Cascadia
= on 01/02/2012 14:26:21 MST Print View

Daryl, try a test where both corners are made equally - in the same way. Then, when one corner tears, what conclusion can be made?

David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
I have tried that on 01/02/2012 14:45:49 MST Print View

It tears at the near end to the force applied.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Battle of the bands-part deaux on 01/02/2012 15:05:46 MST Print View

I haven't seen the test of a star or finger reinforcement.

Daryl Daryl
(lyrad1) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
Good Point on 01/02/2012 17:55:32 MST Print View

Dan,

Good point. If they were the same construction I guess one would have to look for subtle differences between the two to explain why one broke. I'm only interested in gross differences at this point. Still have a couple more ideas that I'd like to try.

Your packs are so well built we'd probably have to drop small cars to test your reinforcement patches.

Daryl

dan mchale
(wildlife) - MLife

Locale: Cascadia
Biners on 01/02/2012 21:39:38 MST Print View

Daryl, the packs are not the point but I did test things in the 70s with my Chevy Corvair and a tree. I never did break the early 70s Chouinard carabiner, although I broke many others. The Chouinard seemed like it would hurt my car if I pressed it.

The point of my prior post is that the testing as is may not be showing much besides random 50/50 failure. The differeces between the loads that are breaking the corners may be statistically insignificant. The differences need to be measured to matter. Gradually loading the test sample will show where the different patches begin to fail before they do, which is something you can do with the same setup. Also, patches like these are meant to absorb a wide angle of force rather than one focused in a narrow range like in the test.

After I posted this I looked up some of your older posts and did not realize this is an ongoing thread series. :>)

Edited by wildlife on 01/02/2012 22:34:37 MST.

Daryl Daryl
(lyrad1) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
Random Failure on 01/03/2012 09:57:07 MST Print View

Dan,

"may not be showing much besides random 50/50 failure"

Sounds like a line from one of my performance reviews before I retired.

OK, now I get it. Time for me to pause and reflect on this project.

Daryl

David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
Test one factor at a time on 01/03/2012 10:39:49 MST Print View

Dan- Pickup truck, large tree, logging chain. Sewed my own runners and harness for awhile. A hydraulic jack with lots of padding work for slow mo. Wear safety glasses.


Daryl- Now you can start testing other factors.

Increase the size of the patch or change stitch length. Try different thread or size needle. At some point you will start having failures places other than the leading
edge of the reinforcement.

Edited by oware on 01/03/2012 10:45:05 MST.

Daryl Daryl
(lyrad1) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
Re: Test one factor at a time on 01/03/2012 11:45:48 MST Print View

David,

Thanks for the tips.

Can I borrow your pickmeup truck?

Daryl

Kevin Beeden
(captain_paranoia) - F

Locale: UK
alternative sewing? on 01/05/2012 11:56:12 MST Print View

If the failure is at the sewn seam (circumferential), why not change the sewing to radial lines from the attachment point? It might cause the tie-out to tear into strips, but this might at least have some strength.

You might have to finish the edges of the sewn-on patch first to stop it fraying.

I'm also wondering about how realistic the test is when the rest of the sheet isn't tensioned (as it would be in a more realistic application, e.g. tent or tarp tie-out). It may well be that the puckering that occurs causes stress concentrations along the seam that wouldn't occur with a 'normally' set up tie-out.

BTW, good work as always, Daryl.

Edited by captain_paranoia on 01/05/2012 11:56:47 MST.

Daryl Daryl
(lyrad1) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
Re: alternative sewing? on 01/05/2012 12:35:36 MST Print View

Kevin,

Yes, I think radial lines(maybe) and finished edges(for sure) would strengthen the patch. I also think the puckering of my test system could be contaminating some of my tentative conclusions.

My "drop the bucket" testing system has been fun but the feedback and my own reconsideration of it says it isn't a very good way to test patches. I think Steve Evan's testing system is much much better.

here

I've learned a lot about reinforcement patches as I've blundered through this, however.

Daryl