Taming Those Large Flexible Foil Windshields
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Benjamin Smith
(bugbomb) - F - M

Locale: South Texas
Taming Those Large Flexible Foil Windshields on 01/16/2007 21:48:43 MST Print View

Companion forum thread to:

Taming Those Large Flexible Foil Windshields

Neil Johnstone
(nsjohnstone) - MLife
Securing foil windscreens on 01/17/2007 00:05:47 MST Print View

My solution is to use a closed-cell foam base with Velcro round the circumference. There's a photograph of this in the "Selecting a Canister Stove for Cold Weather Backpacking Part II: Commercially Available Canister Stove Systems" article (although I currently use a Vari-Vent screen, not the stock MSR one shown in the photograph).
This works well, both with a tube-fed stove and a cannister-top stove. The closed-cell base is just slightly larger than the pot in use, giving a close fitting windscreen. The total weight for base plus screen is 1.7oz for a 0.9l pot.
I have tried the thin Ti windscreens and have not been impressed - I find them just too thin and 'floppy'.

Douglas Hus
(Hustler) - F

Locale: Ontario, Canada
Windshields on 01/17/2007 06:48:57 MST Print View

Has anyone ever made one out of a large (rectangular) tin pizza plate.
-cheap
-easy to mould and work with
-light?
-readily replaceable
-KISS principle?


Doug


.

Dondo .
(Dondo) - F

Locale: Colorado Rockies
Re: Windshields on 01/17/2007 07:52:01 MST Print View

>>Has anyone ever made one out of a large (rectangular) tin pizza plate.

The windscreen I'm now using is cut from an aluminum oven liner and sized to fit my usual set up--a Coleman F1 on a Snowpeak 110g canister with a Evernew .9 liter pot. It measures 8.5" high by 18.25" long and wraps most of the way around leaving only space for the handles and to light the stove and to feel the canister to make sure it isn't overheating. A couple of rocks are placed on the outside near the ends if needed. Weight is 1.1 oz.

John Kays
(johnk) - M

Locale: SoCal
Oven Liner on 01/17/2007 10:31:04 MST Print View

Dondo, I have been looking for a disposable cookie sheet to cut up for a wind screen and the ones I have seen in the grocery stores are more expensive than the commercial wind screens sold here at BPL and elsewhere. Where did you find the oven liner and how much did you pay? Thanks, John

Ronald Gaulden
(ch1cote) - F
Fabric instead of foil on 01/17/2007 11:38:51 MST Print View

If you are going to be staking to the ground why not bring 3 tall stakes and some fabric cut to size and make a windbreak wedge? Probably lighter and just as efficient. And better for canister stoves too. No worries on cut fingers.

Donald Horst
(donhorst) - F

Locale: Sierra Nevada
Windshields on 01/17/2007 13:09:21 MST Print View

I cook with a Snowpeak stove and .9 liter pot [mostly just to heat water]. For some years, I have used a windscreen I make from aluminum foil. I use HEAVY DUTY foil and fold it double, with 1/4 inch fold-overs on the three non-folded edges. It is about 8" by 26" weighs 1.5 oz.

This screen works perfectly, is cheap, easy to make, and lasts me for several seasons [usually 20 - 30 days each]. I ALWAYS use it when I use the stove. I have none of the problems discussed in the article. It is plenty stiff enough for any winds I have tried to cook in, if sheltered by rocks. I fold it into quarters for packing together with other flat items. As described in an earlier discussion, I keep an eye on the fuel-can temperature if I need to close the windscreen on windy days, but it is never a problem.

I can understand needing something different in some very harsh conditions or if the half-ounce of extra weight is a concern. However, for my purposes, I would not want to fool with rolled screens, stakes, or any other complications.

Of course, I would NEVER recommend this solution to anyone else. It is almost certain that someone would wrap the foil tightly around their stove, blow up the fuel can, and sue me. :-)

Don

David Goodyear
(dmgoody) - MLife

Locale: mid-west
oven liner on 01/17/2007 14:00:23 MST Print View

Hey John,

I found a disposable oven liner at Wal-Mart for cheap. Just cut off the edges and you're good to go. I put a half-slot in the top and and opposing slot in the bottom so that it would just slip together. If you need to keep the ends open just use 2 BIG paper clips. I wrap it around my pot to keep it's shape - throw it in a ditty bag and that is that.

I tried the kitescreen and it has it's applications, but I like to hike in rocky areas and it is hard to use stakes.

Good luck

Dave

Edited by dmgoody on 01/17/2007 14:10:30 MST.

Chris Chastain
(Thangfish) - F

Locale: S. Central NC, USA
Ultralight Outfitters Beercan Stove on 01/17/2007 16:25:32 MST Print View

I've been wanting to try the Ti foil as a replacement for the stainless steel windscreen w/ the Ultralight Outfitters Beercan stove. I wonder if it would still be functional as a double-wall insulator, when used for drinking hot beverages. The tendency to roll up would be a benefit with this system.

Anybody try this yet?

I'm thinking it might knock as much as an oz. off. The included ss one weighs almost 40g.

Edited by Thangfish on 01/17/2007 16:28:51 MST.

Dondo .
(Dondo) - F

Locale: Colorado Rockies
Re: Oven Liner on 01/17/2007 19:20:25 MST Print View

John, I found oven liners at Albertsons supermarket. Can't remember what I paid; it was a while ago. Probably not more than three or four dollars for a 2-pack, size 16"x18.25".

Edited by Dondo on 01/17/2007 21:14:01 MST.

Mary Simpson
(maryphyl) - F
Re: Windshields on 01/17/2007 22:33:39 MST Print View

Don--I do what you do with the HD foil. I use the regular width folded once and then I fold the raw edges over again about an inch giving me 4 layers at the top. I attach a "tail" strip of foil to the center with a big paper clip. A rock or some sand on the tail and there is no problem with it flying off on me. mp

Bill Holt
(BillBHolt) - F
Re: Windshields on 01/18/2007 09:10:20 MST Print View

Don,

I use a similar set up to yours except that I fold mine in half and store it in my pot.

On the subject of having a fuel cannister explode because its over heated from a wind shield. A few years ago I posted on several lists asking if anyone had real experience or knowledge of this ever happening and no one could come up with an example of a fuel tank exploding except Ryan who had experience of what happens if you put one in a fire.

I personally have experienced the valve failing because of over heating not a pretty site and a potentially dangerous situation but the cannister did not explode.

Unless I hear otherwise I put a cannister exploding because of overheating from a windshield in the category of "urban legend"

Bill

Tony Beasley
(tbeasley) - MLife

Locale: Pigeon House Mt from the Castle
Density of Ti vs SS on 01/18/2007 14:31:24 MST Print View

Hi Roger,

Could you please clarify this statement “It should be noted that steel is several times heavier than titanium, so a stainless steel foil windshield is going to be heavier anyhow.”

My information does not support this statement, a rough quick check of (matweb.com) Ti/Ti alloys range from 4.47 g/cc to 4.7 g/cc, pure Ti is 4.5 g/cc and most steels are in the range of 7.8 g/cc, SS ranges from 7.8 g/cc to 8.0 g/cc this makes steel approximately 1.65-1.8 times heavier.
.

Tony

Douglas Frick
(Otter) - MLife

Locale: Wyoming
Re: Re: Windshields on 01/18/2007 14:59:59 MST Print View

>personally have experienced the valve failing because of over heating not a pretty site


What happened when the valve failed?

I also have not been able to find any reports of canisters exploding other than when thrown into a fire, although there are some second-hand reports of a canister bottom 'convexing' suddenly when overheated.

Edited by Otter on 01/18/2007 15:01:54 MST.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Density of Ti vs SS on 01/18/2007 19:48:17 MST Print View

Hi Tony

> Could you please clarify this statement “It should be noted that steel is several times heavier than titanium, so a stainless steel foil windshield is going to be heavier anyhow.”
You are right IF you only compare density. But Ti foil is much harder than SS foil, so you can use thinner Ti foil compared to SS foil. That way you get a multiplier effect. I guess I could have expanded on this statement in the article to explain this.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: Windshields on 01/18/2007 19:51:09 MST Print View

> I also have not been able to find any reports of canisters exploding other than when thrown into a fire, although there are some second-hand reports of a canister bottom 'convexing' suddenly when overheated.

Well, one day (in a Galaxy far far away) I will have an article on this subject of canister safety. But not this month.

In the meantime, you might like to note that the 'convexing' is actually a design/safety feature/requirement.

Yes, the canisters are a LOT safer than the legalese you read in places would imply. Just monitor the can with you finger, as someone noted.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Fabric instead of foil on 01/18/2007 19:54:11 MST Print View

> If you are going to be staking to the ground why not bring 3 tall stakes and some fabric cut to size and make a windbreak wedge? Probably lighter and just as efficient. And better for canister stoves too. No worries on cut fingers.

Several reasons why I don't do this myself:

The kitescreen does not provide as much wind protection as a closer wrapped screen.

Kitescreens don't work with most alcohol stoves, which *need* the enclosure to get hot enough.

You can't use a kitescreen on sheet rock - and we are often on sheet rock at morning tea time :-)

Apart from the stainless steel, which was deadly, I have never had any problems with the edge of Al or Ti.

Brett .
(Brett1234) - F

Locale: CA
canister test someone? on 01/18/2007 19:54:36 MST Print View

Would someone who lives in a rural area please run a test on a canister's explosivity? Set it up with a full windscreen, an enclosed top, set it on full open, and find out if it really explodes, or just goes convex?

Mike Barney
(eaglemb) - F

Locale: AZ, the Great Southwest!
Re: canister test someone? on 01/18/2007 20:38:48 MST Print View

The answer is, I suspect, it depends on the container and circumstances. I've seen the bottom of one 'poochied" out from being too warm (in a car in Phoenix in the summer) and the seam warped and the gas leaked out. Different manufacturers may have different safety strategies, so I wouldn't expect they would all behave the same.

MikeB

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: canister test someone? on 01/20/2007 13:42:06 MST Print View

> Would someone who lives in a rural area please run a test on a canister's explosivity? Set it up with a full windscreen, an enclosed top, set it on full open, and find out if it really explodes, or just goes convex?

As noted in a message a couple of boxes before this one, aa technical article on this subject is coming.