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Daryl Daryl
(lyrad1) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
Re: "Tarp Tie Out Logic Check" on 05/10/2012 13:03:31 MDT Print View

Craig,

What type of tape did you use for the rounded reinforcement piece (with cord lock attached) in the photo above?

Daryl

Steve B
(geokite) - F

Locale: Southern California
Top of pole tie out on 05/10/2012 13:46:26 MDT Print View

Craig,
My problem is getting the tie-out strip of cuben taped to both sides of the tarp at the apex of the tarp. Toward the front the beak is in the way. I would prefer not to rely on the taped tie-out being only attached to the tarp on one side of the tarp. Maybe this isn't a big deal, as the direction of pull will always be good for it (down toward the front) as long as it is staked out (and not tied to a tree).

See the guy lines on the front of a Patrol Shelter from MLD. I believe Ron sews all his webbing for tie outs, so the thread attaches the webbing to the both sides of the tarp.

With some effort I could make a paper model like you did to illustrate the issue.

Thanks
Steve

Karple T
(ctracyverizon)

Locale: Mid-Alantic
"Tarp Tie Out Logic Check" on 05/10/2012 13:51:21 MDT Print View

I am using the tape from zpacks along with a primer that you spread on all surfaces that will touch the tape.

The primer makes a big difference in the bond strength as it etches the surface and makes it tacky so the tapes sticks better.

I have also used sand paper to ruff the surface of the cuben for better adhesion on things like stuff sacks where I am not too concerned with sheer strength.

One trick is to trim the tape as close to the edge of the patch as you can and them rub off the glue from the excess backing so it does not end up on your tarp.

Any tape glue the does stick out can just be rubbed off though.

Primer for Ridgeline and edges. $10.00 for 5 tubes.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-3M-Primer-94-Adhesive-Promoter-Tape-For-3M-DI-NOC-Pen-02oz-66ml-Tube-/110789655658?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19cb93fc6a

One roll of Cuban Tape (double sided) $30.00
http://zpacks.com/materials.shtml

Here is a ridgline taped patch:
tieout ridge

Karple T
(ctracyverizon)

Locale: Mid-Alantic
"Tarp Tie Out Logic Check" on 05/10/2012 13:58:58 MDT Print View

Are you looking for a tie out like this on both ends?

patrol

Karple T
(ctracyverizon)

Locale: Mid-Alantic
"Tarp Tie Out Logic Check" on 05/10/2012 15:03:56 MDT Print View

I think if you made it like this it would be plenty strong and you could add patches on the inside and put a couple of bar-tacks in it.

Every surface is taped in the stack.


loop1

loop2

loop3

loop4

loop15

loop16

Edited by ctracyverizon on 05/10/2012 15:11:31 MDT.

Steve B
(geokite) - F

Locale: Southern California
ok on 05/10/2012 15:34:10 MDT Print View

Ok, that helps. Put the tie-out underneath the reinforcement patch. So the tie-out is attached (to something) on both sides of itself.

I ordered the primer and will give it a try. Instead of using linelocks, I've been playing with the nylon washer method (thread here on using polycro for a tarp had the method with Gorilla tape, but I will use myo cuben tape), but I will probably make my own nylon piece to tape into the reinforcement (imagine a flat piece of nylon shaped like the fabric edge with a hole in it). I certainly will take pictures of it, and will test it before hand on some scraps.

I find the tape from z-packs has lots of tack, so much that it is somewhat harder to work with than what I'm used to. I've used PC9460 tape (much less tack) for a long time making kites (imagine panel overlaps of 2mm in a small kite) with great success. I've made some stuff sacks using the 9460, but that really isn't much of a test.

Steve

Edited by geokite on 05/10/2012 17:07:25 MDT.

Daryl Daryl
(lyrad1) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
Re: "Tarp Tie Out Logic Check" on 05/10/2012 17:27:02 MDT Print View

Craig,

Thanks for the info.

I like that primer idea.

Daryl

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
tarp tie out on 05/15/2012 00:25:17 MDT Print View

Thank you much, Craig.
Just one qn: Does your response to Lesha Y's question mean that you are using 1.5 oz folded cuben to make the tape for the tie out loop? Just want to be sure.
Thanks.

Karple T
(ctracyverizon)

Locale: Mid-Alantic
"Tarp Tie Out Logic Check" on 05/15/2012 06:02:16 MDT Print View

I used the 1.5, ran tape along the edge and folded over and trimmed for a 1" width then removed backing and taped down for the 1/2" tie out. Tie outs are 4" long.

Then ran tape along it and pulled it through the linelock and applied to both sides of corner/tarp and put patches over on both sides.

I have no concern about the tie outs failing.

tie6

Edited by ctracyverizon on 05/15/2012 08:24:42 MDT.

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
Tarp Tie Out on 05/15/2012 19:33:45 MDT Print View

Thanks, Craig. Yes, looks very solid.

Liang Kong
(gearer) - MLife
My approach on 05/22/2012 16:05:43 MDT Print View

Here is how I did it:
Making a tarp with .51 blue cuben
Folding .7 cuben to make 1/2 inch strips
tie outs
Taping them on both sides of the tarp
Taped on
Reinforced with 2.92 nylon/cuben on one side.
Then encounter this problem:
peeling
Solutions:
1 Reinforcing on both sides
2 Making eyelet for trekking poles
Final

Karple T
(ctracyverizon)

Locale: Mid-Alantic
"Tarp Tie Out Logic Check" on 05/24/2012 08:03:17 MDT Print View

Nice job Liang. I like the blue cuben.

I thought about using a grommet but I don’t want my GG LT4 handles in the mud : )

I found a way to set up that was easy as is.
One note on taping the tie outs and running them through the line-locks.

In your photo you can see the tie-out spreading apart in the center due to the load pulling it apart from the top side that has no reinforcing patch.

If the tie-out was taped in that center area and the Line-lock was taped in to keep it from moving along with a patch on top you would not have that separation.

I think taping in the line-lock is a key to that not happening at the ridge. It is not an issue at the other tie-outs that just pull strait out and not up and out.

You can always bar tack it in if it starts becoming an issue

to1

t2

Edited by ctracyverizon on 05/24/2012 08:24:51 MDT.

Brendan Swihart
(brendans) - MLife

Locale: Fruita CO
Re: "Tarp Tie Out Logic Check" on 05/24/2012 08:19:36 MDT Print View

I made a tarp last spring and did cuben tieouts like shown and started to have the separating issue shown above. The real problem came when I was setting up the tarp last summer in Utah and a gust of wind came up and the tieout ripped clean off the tarp. They were 8 layers thick and both sides ripped, so 16 layers (plus Hysol) of .75 oz cuben. Looked like it'd been cut off with scissors. Anyway, I ended up cutting off the rest and just using grosgrain. The remaining part of the cuben tieouts acted as even more layers to sew into.cds

Karple T
(ctracyverizon)

Locale: Mid-Alantic
"Tarp Tie Out Logic Check" on 05/24/2012 13:24:36 MDT Print View

Hey Brendan - that is what I want to happen in a gust.

I want to lose the tie out rather than have this -

t4

Liang - Here is what HMG does on their Echo 1

t6

Edited by ctracyverizon on 05/24/2012 13:29:29 MDT.

Liang Kong
(gearer) - MLife
Re: "Tarp Tie Out Logic Check" on 05/28/2012 11:50:49 MDT Print View

Hey Craig
I think HMG did a good work solving this problem.
I will see what I can find locally.

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
Tarp Tie Out Logic Check on 05/28/2012 21:16:20 MDT Print View

Also want to put the pole tip on the ground, where it works best, and use the handle to support the awning. So am thinking about doing this:

Awning Tie Out