Hi all,

I am looking for advice on the best very warm (EN comfort rating of 20 or lower) very compressible, synthetic sleeping bag. I would like to spend no more than $225 if possible and am willing to buy from an online store (like backcountry.com, etc) rather than straight from a store like REI.

I get cold very easily; I plan to hike in very wet areas. That is why I am going very warm and synthetic.

However, although how much my gear actually weighs doesn't bother me, the "backpacking light" part of my backpacking philosophy is that I want to carry only a 30-liter pack (The North Face Angstrom 30) on multi-day treks. The dimensions are 21"x13"x8". So, I need a sleeping bag that, besides being warm and somewhat water-resistant, packs down very small.

The North Face Snow Leopard at first seemed like a good option -- but then I read numerous complaints about it packing large and a poor stuff sack. I was also thinking about the Mountain Hardware UltraLamina 0 -- but the EN-comfort is only 27.

Of course I know I might have to compromise on some things to get exactly the "perfect" bag for me, but I would like to hear what you good people have to say first!

Many thanks!

Austin

If you sure that your own physiologic model is inline with EN 13537 one, than Mountain Hardwear UltraLamina 15 sleeping bag probably meet your requirement. The men regular version has EN Rating: EN Rating: T-Limit: 19 F / -7C EN Rating: T-Comfort: 30 F / -1C listed on their web site.

Btw, I presume you are talking about 20F/ 0C bag.

P.S.: For looking for comfort range for men, one should look at the T-Limit value; for looking for women comfort range, one should look at T-Comfort value.

I shall quote two paragraphs from the standard English version:
---quoted----
comfort temperature (Tcomf)
lower limit of the comfort range down to which a sleeping bag user with a relaxed posture such as lying on the back is globally in thermal equilibrium and just not feeling cold (related to standard woman and in standard condition of use)

limit temperature (Tlim)
lower limit at which a sleeping bag user with a rolled-up body posture is globally in thermal equilibrium and just not feeling cold (related to standard man and in standard conditions of use)
---unquoted----

Of course, for really comfort for men, one probably needs to use Tcomf minus 3C as the value, so that does not to sleep in rolled-up body posture. Details leave for the real experts to explain.

Actually, I meant 0 F. My apologies.

A true 0F Synthetic Sleeping Bag is HUGE!

Good luck on your search.

Yes, a true 0* synthetic is not going to leave much, if any room in a 30L bag. That being said, I have used my Alps Mountaineering "Clearwater 20" (Long) in my hacked up Exos 34 with plenty of room to spare, and have used it down to about 10*f with a couple layers on. It is by far the warmest bag I own, and they are dirt cheap on backcountry.com. But if a true 0* bag is what you are after, this probably won't do the trick.

If you are looking for a sub zero synthetic bag the Mountain Hardwear Lamina -30 is hard to beat for the money. I picked one up for winter pulk trips, and it comes with a compression stuff sack, but it is still bulky at 10x17 packed.

warm. compressible. synthetic.

pick any two and you can have it. one of them has to go

I'm having a really hard time with the idea of a 30 liter pack for winter trips. My winter down bag in a compression stuff sack has a hard time fitting inside my Circuit - it fits, but barely. Add my winter clothing, pad, kitchen, and enough food for a winter weekend, and 50-60 liters is about the minimum for me.

Adding a synthetic 0-F bag would make it close to impossible.

I figure I could attach the tent to a side of the pack, the sleeping pad tied under, and the sleeping bag to the other side. If the sleeping bag didn't fit in the side hoop, and if it really didn't fit inside the pack, I could simply carry it. So basically the inside would be devoted to clothing and field gear (DSLR camera, binocs). I'm not a cooker -- I just bring trailmixesque type food that I could probably fit entirely in my camera case.

So, that's how I'm picturing this even as possible.

The Mountain Hardware Lamina, Ultralamina 0, or The North Face Snow Leopard seem like the best options to me right now. Could anyone speak to their compressibility?

A 0°F synthetic sleeping bag strapped to the side is going to create a very wide load, not to mention balance issues.

After you have compressed your 0F bag into a tiny bag a few times, it probably won't be a 0F bag anymore.
Repeated compression destroys synthetic loft.

Edited by MikefaeDundee on 12/27/2011 04:52:24 MST.

>>> However, although how much my gear actually weighs doesn't bother me, the "backpacking light" part of my backpacking philosophy is that I want to carry only a 30-liter pack (The North Face Angstrom 30) on multi-day treks.

Err,, AFAIK backpackinglight suggests strongly that backpack should be the last item you replace after you know the overall weight and volume of your gear... otherwise "you'll pay dearly for it"...

edit: btw there is a 0F MH Phantom at geartrade now if you're small size it's only 255, you can always add vapor barrier to protect down from moisture inside and a bivy to protect it from moisture outside, a down bag + vb + bivy + dry bag is much lighter and compact idea than pure synthetic IMO... hope this helps...

Edited by ismailfaruqi on 12/27/2011 06:55:37 MST.

Austin,

To second what Ismail said, look at other ways to beef up your sleep system, get a warmer pad, warmer baselayer, warmer socks, warmer hat, (wear all of your clothes!) add a bivy sack to keep the bag drier and it adds about 10 degrees of warmth. Then you can start to look at 20 degree F bags which opens up your options.

I would not carry my sleeping bag on the outside of my pack ever! Especially in a wet environment, way too much risk of damage.

Where are are hiking? Are they long trips or weekend outings? What are expected low temps? A down bag may be just fine, and they are a lot less bulky.

I missed your 'wet' comment in the OP.
I've used only down bags/quilts for the last 15 or so years in wet Scotland.
A little camp craft will solve any potential problems.

If you're sure you need synthetic, get a larger pack.

Otherwise, a down bag stored in your pack is more likely to stay dry than a synthetic bag hanging outside the pack.

Remember that when temperatures get down to around 15-20F, that's generally "cold-dry" conditions where moisture in the air and even wet precipitation isn't a concern.

A down bag can be kept dry by:

* put it in its stuff sack
* put that in a dry sack which you've tested yourself
* use a trash compactor bag as a pack liner
* if you use a bivy, make sure it is very breathable, such as eVent
* use a large trash bag or drum liner or Heatsheets emergency bivy as a vapor barrier liner to keep your own perspiration from wetting the bag
* get a bag with good DWR, or treat it yourself

"Where are are hiking? Are they long trips or weekend outings? What are expected low temps? A down bag may be just fine, and they are a lot less bulky."

Most trips will be overnighters or weekenders, say Friday morning-Sunday afternoon. Most low temps will be low 30s F with high chance of rain. I would like to be comfortable down to 10 F, though -- however that is achievable, whether it is through a powerful sleeping bag or a combination of sleeping bag and pad.

I am looking, as far as sleeping pad, at the Exped Downmat 9 -- I hear rave reviews about it, with an R-value of 8. I was worried about it being down rather than synthetic, though, although in a sleeping pad I don't really know how down would get wet.

I'm really wary of getting a down bag what with the high chance of wetness...

Austin, not to be harsh but you're being unreasonable.

What you want is an idealized world where everything works all the time, perfectly, weighs nothing, and fits into a pill. This simply doesn't exist. There is no free lunch and you will have to make compromises somewhere.

All of your options that you are looking at are bulky (comes with cold weather gear) and a 30L bag simply won't cut it. Even the most bare-bones winter enthusiasts have a hard time at that size pack because winter gear just takes up more space.

The exped downmat 9 is rated to -38F and weighs a ton. Why do you need/want that? Sure R-8 sounds/is impressive but an RV will be plenty warm too.

Again, I'm critical. This is a forum geared towards Backpacking LIGHT. You seem more interested into traditional backpacking methods or are rather inexperienced in the backcountry. If the former, there is a lot you can learn from this site if you're willing to listen. If the latter, then you should consider gaining more experience during milder weather before tackling sub-freezing weather. Hypothermia is not only miserable and potentially fatal, it's also very likely to happen to someone who doesn't know how to stay warm. Simply wanting a synthetic won't keep you comfortable, you'll still freeze if it gets soaking wet and isn't taken care of, you just won't die, maybe.

These forums have a lot of information that you can learn from, but the first thing you have to understand is that there is no one silver bullet solution to any problem, much less the worst case scenario of backpacking which is "cold and wet"

Austin, as long as you protect your sleeping bag well while it's in your pack and you don't sleep in puddles, a down bag should work fine.

Most bag have a dwr treatment that sheds water, so if you get misting in your shelter, most of it should roll off the bag.

Condensation from sweat is a concern, but you won't get that much built up over the course of a weekend.

Misting and condensation will reduce the effectiveness of a down bag, but it also reduces the effectiveness of a synthetic bag. I suspect that you believe it takes a minuscule amount of water to completely collapse the down in a sleeping bag, but you have to try pretty hard to soak a down bag in a single weekend.

No matter what type of bag you get, make sure you air it out thoroughly when you get back home.

As far as a down sleeping bag goes, you should use a pump or inflation bag to fill it. Blowing it up with your mouth will cause condensation inside, and since the fabric in an air pad doesn't breathe, it'll eventually get nasty in there.

IMO youre overestimating the warmth you need

a 20F bag should be more than enough for the temps yr describing, especially should you have additional clothes around ...

i own and use a NF cats meow that is en-rated to ~20F, they cost ~$100 ... id say youd want al least a 40L+ pack for it and yr other equipment

I agree with most of the comments here, especially those recommending a down bag instead of synthetic. Compare EN ratings of 0 degree down bags with 0 degree synthetic bags and it's a significant difference. Pack your bag in a truly waterproof compression sack and use a waterproof pack liner and everything should stay nice and dry. I've done over 12 years of long-distance backpacking mainly in the soggy, humid northeast (including the Adirondack High Peaks and NH White Mts) using only down bags and suggest the following:
-Marmot Helium 15 degree down bag (great EN rating) stuffed in a size small Sea to Summit eVent compression sack (remove immediately after using). Or similar 800-fill down bag such as Mountain Hardwear Phantom 15, EMS Mountain Light 15 or Western Mountaineering, etc.
-Therm-a-Rest Neo-Air sleeping pad. Get the 4-season version if you're looking for a higher R-value and low weight. Also doesn't use any fill insulation so you don't have to worry about it getting affected by moisture.
-If you're still concerned about getting the bag wet, carry a ligthweight waterproof bag cover like the Equinox Sprawler bivy or Montbell Dry-Tech bivy.
-Carry a small facial-sized ultralight pack towel to wipe up any condensation in your tent.
-Choose where and how you pitch your tent carefully. Avoid areas (like next to a stream) that will increase condensation. Vent your tent as much as possible to limit condensation. Don't unpack anything else from your pack until your tent is up and the inside is dry.
Good luck!