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More warmth needed - Add to torso or groin/legs ??
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Nathan Stuart
(forest.)

Locale: Hunter Valley - Australia
More warmth needed - Add to torso or groin/legs ?? on 12/21/2011 14:21:44 MST Print View

More warmth needed - Add to torso or groin/legs ??

What do you think would be an okay system down to a possible worst case low of -5°C at night. (23 F)
This gear is for a Larapinta trail in winter 2012. Planning about 16 days on the trail with 2 resuplies.
Hot temps through the day so I don't really need to hike much clothing, it's only for the cold clear desert nights.

Current layers will be:

Torso:
Smartwool Microweight LS top (Also walking top and only baselayer I'll have) 163grams
Feathered Friends Daybreak Jacket. 241 grams
Marmot Mica Jacket. 203 grams

Legs:
195gsm merino long johns. 156 grams
Montane wind pants. (Rain gear too) 108 grams
(Will also have Columbia light weight long pants I'll walk in) 330 grams.

I haven't really used my FF Daybreak much as it's summer here now. I'm pretty sure it will be fine as I could use my old Montbell UL jacket to about freezing but not below. The Daybreak has a bit more down in it and more loft.

I think I'll need something else and currently I'm reliant on a fair bit of down for warmth.

Options are:

R1 Clone fleece shirt. 327grams but would hold some warmth if wet. I guess I'm worried I don't have a whole lot of torso clothing.

Or I have some down 2/3rd pants made by Ben @ Goosefeet. 2.5oz of 800 fill. They are toasty and only 153 grams so half the weight of the R1 Fleece. I've used them when snow camping and they are great.

Will adding insulation to my groin and upper legs do the same as more torso warmth ??

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
the latter on 12/21/2011 19:06:10 MST Print View

you dont need the insulation when active as you say ... so the R1 wouldnt be as efficient

balancing out the insulation top and bottom would be better for sleeping as well

Jake D
(JakeDatc) - F

Locale: Bristol,RI
Re: More warmth needed - Add to torso or groin/legs ?? on 12/22/2011 09:10:53 MST Print View

add a light weight hat. weighs next to nothing and will be way more versatile than extra pants or jacket. think about it.. everything is inside your sleeping bag except your head and you lose tons of heat through your head.

Brian Lewis
(brianle) - F

Locale: Pacific NW
go for torso on 12/22/2011 10:14:31 MST Print View

Indeed this is all about keeping yourself warm at night IMO, unless you're the type that likes to take long breaks during the day. Even then, torso warmth layers are a lot easier to put on and take off than anything on the legs.

Assuming that perhaps you just didn't list headwear that you already plan to bring, i.e., sticking to the torso vs. groin/legs question, I'd definitely favor the torso. For one thing, you can do most or every in-camp chore with your lower body in the sleeping bag. And you already have long johns listed.

On the AT early last year the temps got down into the teens several nights. I used a WM 20F rated bag with down booties (highly recommended for cold temps, feet in particular can be an issue), a down parka, but just thin long johns and my normal hiking pants on my legs. This combo worked great for me.

Nathan Stuart
(forest.)

Locale: Hunter Valley - Australia
Hats and sleep system etc on 12/22/2011 13:13:39 MST Print View

Hi Guys

Just to clarify I will have a Blackrock Down Beanie and Wool Balaclava.
Feet will be fine as I have some fluffy light poly socks and spare merino walkers in case. + some bread bags as a VB if it's really bad on my feet at night.
My sleep system is a 3 season wide burrow by hammock gear with 2oz overfill.
Exped UL Syn Mat under me.
I'm not worried about the sleeping part being cold.

Even when stopping I don't think any extra layers will be needed/wanted as the daytime temps are quite hot. Maybe a nice icecream will be most desired but that's unlikely....

It's just camp when that sun drops and early mornings. Apparently the thermometer plummets once that sun drops over the horizon in the desert. I'm thinking the down pants as they are very light and will give me more overall body coverage.
Not keen on walking around wearing my TQ, that thing drapped over me and sharp spinifex grass is asking for trouble.
There are three of us so I'd imagine a little camp time at night talking s#$t like usual. No camp fires though other than the bushbuddy !!

I'm not one to really get cold legs either but I do understand there are some major arteries running through the upper legs and groind. Maybe keeping these warmer would do the same thing as adding a vest or more upper layers ?? I guess that's my question as I have no idea ??

Edited by forest. on 12/22/2011 13:16:29 MST.

Brian Lewis
(brianle) - F

Locale: Pacific NW
get into the sleeping bag on 12/23/2011 02:52:23 MST Print View

Again, this is a style thing, but for the situation you're talking about I'd just leave the down or synthetic pants at home and get the lower half of my body into the sleeping bag as soon as possible. You can do almost everything "half in the bag". Heck, bring along a little everclear and you can do so in both meanings of the phrase, but I'm talking about spending all of your camp time with your lower body in the sleeping bag.

Group dynamics, however, are indeed what can defeat this. It's then a matter of talking to your hiking buddies ahead of time to get a sense for their camp-time expectations.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
Re: Hats and sleep system etc on 12/23/2011 12:35:57 MST Print View

adding insulation to the legs does help when stationary ...

again if its a choice between the R1 and the down pants ... for what you described, id take the down pants ...

the R1 is not very warm, and its really for active use