Cameron Kennedy you are the Man, Man! +1
Everybody have a Merry X-Mass!

Yes, I agree with Jay.

I think if a thread has pushed even Cameron, the always steady, unflappable, and clear-thinking one, to the edge, maybe it should be taken out to the forest, buried in the sod, and a small sapling planted atop it.

Happy holidays!

"I'm all for these types of discussions, but it would be good to ratchet it down a few notches (on all sides), and try to get back to a dispassionate conversation along the lines of what Tony asks.... what would it take to get non-members to join up? What does BPL do well? What could it do better? Etc. And trying to leave the personal stuff out of it."

Why does anyone want to talk about this stuff? I'd prefer it if we left the marketing to BPL staff and use these forums for postings related to backpacking. Even if several of you think BPL's not being run well, which I would disagree with, why bring it up again and again in these forums?

And why are some people being so sensitive about M, and MLife, and hierarchies, and class warfare, and whatever else? Does it matter what someone who we don't know and who likely lives on the other side of the country thinks? When did folks here on BPL become so delicate? And when did the way that BPL is being run become a topic that people invest hours of their life thinking about and talking about?

If someone has a problem with how BPL is being run, please send a letter to BPL staff directly.

Edited by Gabe on 12/22/2011 14:29:15 MST.

Gabriel has ended the thread. If you have concerns or suggestions, provide them to BPL directly. Happy holidays!

"Hey Tyty, i think it's time for YOU to put up or shut up... you say it is nothing. No M by your name there buddy. what's a few bucks.

If you would actually pay attention this is not all about the Gear Swap. The general value of the membership overall is being discussed.

but keep copying and pasting the same little rant."

It's not time for me to put up or shut up, I am thoroughly enjoying taking advantage of all the information that is available for free on this site and not complaining about receiving said information for free.

I have re-stated the same argument because it's just aw inspiring the so called argument you and your fellow complainers are making. First it was the classifieds, now it is a members only article, oh let's not forget your hurt feelings at being singled out for not having an M or MLIFE next to your profile. What next?

Here is what I want...

I want Ryan Jordan to come to my house and interview me as to my hopes, dreams, and interests such as products I am interested in and places I am interested in visiting. Then I want him to go, use those products, visit those places and become an expert on everything that I am interested in. I then want him to write articles specifically answering my questions and expertly giving me all the answers to everything in life I am curious about knowing. Then I want Ryan to send me a copy of his tax returns, his business plan, give me his SSN, mothers maiden name, DOB, driver's license and a blank check. Once I have accessed his accounts and underwritten his and BPL finances I will determine what this site costs and the exact figure each member has to pay for Ryan to break even.

Once I have reached a conclusion and received my custom BPL magazine for several months I will buy a membership at that break even price (which should not be anywhere NEAR the insane $2 a month figure which is a very obviously highway robbery).

Oh I forgot...I also want "M PIMP DADDY FOR ETERNITY" next to my name.

Edited by TylerD on 12/22/2011 14:36:39 MST.

Gabriel



A popular service available to everyone one was made members-only with no warning or public notice. Do you really think that people would just accept it without any discussion at all? really?

And if the M and Mlife people who are very vocal about telling people to put up or shut up have created much of the "us vs them" arguments.

who is being delicate? you who are begging to stop a discussion that has shown that BPL membership that it is not all that it's cracked up to be? yea I could see why you'd want to stop that.

BPL's marketing staff could probably use some suggestions from people who have not invested in them yet. They have made the sale on the M and Mlife's.

making free services not free anymore doesn't sound like a boat that is running smoothly.

This is a public forum, the staff has said that any and all suggestions are welcome. Don't read it if you don't want to. i'm sure that i speak for most non-members that we encourage your right to not read anything you do not want to read.

Edited by JakeDatc on 12/22/2011 14:41:13 MST.

Yikes.

I don't propose anyone love it or leave. Not my thing either. I even welcome topics ( guns??) that others would like to censor. Critique away, not a problem for me. Same goes for those critiquing your critique. It's just better without the name calling and when people are ok with differing opinions.

Kat I have tried to make it clear that it has been *some* saying like it or leave and not all.

One issue, Mlife folks especially have far less weight in this discussion. You have all paid or have been gifted all the services of the site so any changes, moves, additions or removals have zero effect on your usage of the site. So when someone who is not effect by change tells people who are that they should sack up and pay or whatever it gives off a very bad vibe and is definitely not appreciated.

Another is that when someone who is unaffected by change says that people who are should stop discussion said changes it again sends a bad vibe.

i will NEVER pay for a membership here (or any other forum for that matter) so people can say all the value they want until they are blue in the face it does not matter to me. What does matter is the attitude towards people like myself who have no interest in the paid membership or even people who say they are thinking about it but would like to discuss changes that have been made or could be.

Is this what it is like in Greece?


:)

Tony wrote "As a Rhetoric major, I see nothing here that adds to the discussion of how to improve BPL or what would need to change on BPL that would compel a non member from signing up.

I had asked a question in another related thread, but never seem to get an answer.

Again, I would ask the question:

What would need to change at BPL that would be compelling enough to a non member to be willing to sign up for a membership?

I never heard a response, which leads me to believe that those complaining just like to argue for the sake of arguing."

My answer posted here:

"1. The forums are free, which is why I visit the site. I have considered becoming a paying member for the "M" articles, but it seems like eventually that information trickles down into the forums.

2. If BPL offered a more in-depth, region specific (e.g. Sierra), trip advisor/planner section, kind of like a real time up-to-date guide book with current trail conditions and other relevant beta, then I would probably stretch these short arms into my deep pockets to pay for a membership. Maybe publish a quarterly "season" guide with unique routes, hidden features, or specific challenges presented by an author who has experience in that given area. Yeah, I'd pay for that."

Tony, Possibly nobody was listening?

All of this bickering keeps pushing my GoLite Jam pack that I have for sale farther and farther back in the listings...man people you gotta let it go!

Hi Alex

Oh, rest assured BPL is listening.
However, things like "a more in-depth, region specific (e.g. Sierra), trip advisor/planner section" and so on would cost a lot of $$$ to implement in a manner consistent with BPL quality standards. Right now, with the GFC, BPL does not have huge amounts of spare cash! Neither do many others ...

Cheers

Hi Roger,

Thank you for the prompt response. Just to be clear, my inquiry was more of a rhetorical question than anything. I do appreciate the quality standards that BPL applies to their articles and I can only wish the same level of detail was given to go-out-there-and-get-dirty type musings that would further motivate me. Although, I wouldn't expect that to be free and that was my opinion given to Tony's question.

Edited by FeetFirst on 12/22/2011 18:07:26 MST.

Let's start a tear swap forum !

All those upset by the change can post there and trade sob stories with people like themselves.

I'm truly sorry Jake has his feelings hurt. But, that is in the past now. Jake sees no value in BPL, the articles, the discussion, or the people. Jake will never be a member, nor does he make a case he can be a non-disruptive member of the BPL community going forward. His account exists to spam BPL with his hurt feelings.

What is the procedure to move towards banning an account ?
----------------
Edit
I will not ban someone from BPL just for expressing dissenting views - ever.
I will ban spammers, especially 'shoe boys' from China :-)
I may ban someone who continues to lace their postings with vulgarities or profanities after warnings.
But never for polite dissent - even if strongly worded. That is censorship, and I won't go there.

Cheers
Roger Caffin
Online Community Monitor
backpacking Light

I don't believe continually posting a topic that the BPL administration is a dissenting view.
It is disruptive. Give upset people a way to take up the issue with the BPL administration .
Letting people continue to disrupt the forums is a pathetic management strategy.

Edited by redmonk on 12/23/2011 08:51:06 MST.

Craig, that photo is priceless! But I need to add here.

Ty Ty, exactly! You get it.

Jake, have you heard the term "Bull In A China Shop"? Look, I really do not know where you get your ideas about "paid members". I have been both paid and unpaid. The unpaid came when I let my subscription end because I could not afford to re-up. If you look throughout the forum, there are both non paid members as well as paid members that contribute here POLITELY. So you cannot sell your gear here. Is this site yours? Do you make the rules?

Bull In A China Shop


Jake, let's go for a hike man. I dig the Sierras and know some fantastic places where you see glaciers, mountains (14,000 +), beautiful meadows etc. Just awe inspiring....Isn't that why we are all here. Come hang with us in Feb. at Henry Coe near San Jose...you will have a fantastic time....I guarantee you that (or my name is not Ken!). This is why we all come here. To seek some knowledge, and to hang with like minded folks. I have met some wonderful people on here over the time I have been here, and I would NOT trade that for anything....well maybe this darn diabetes that I have.....

All I have to say is, dude chill and roll with it.

Ken,

What's the info on this hike in Feb at Henry Coe? Sounds like a lot of fun.

Erik, it is in the trip announcements....It is our 4th Annual. This year it is at Henry Coe State Park near San Jose. There should be 100+ attending. And it is FUN!!

Also there will be others from Southern California coming so carpooling can happen. Please come on up, you will have a blast. It is Feb. 17-19th

Ken I am basing my opinion on comments from these threads dealing with a legit complaint by users to a change in the forum. I do not like what i have seen.


I have been to the Sierras. Kings Canyon to be exact. It was a great trip, my dad has the details from it that i need to get from him (trip was in 2000 or so)

I am in RI and have no money for plane travel anywhere. I plan on doing the Long Trail in VT for my big trip this summer. Pemi loop in NH, CT section of the AT and Presi. range in a day for "training" trips. I also rock climb in the .11+ to .12 range (10 years experience), road cycled 2600mi this year, 2500 last year and 2100 the year before that. It is not like i do not get outside. I am only partially employed so I might get outside more than many.

I have done plenty of posting and reading on the other parts of the board. I am frustrated with how this board is set up. my arguments have never been about the gear swap issue. I have an issue with it because i do not think it is the right way to get more revenue but i have nothing to sell so it is what it is. Everything else has been towards the attitude that non-members "owe" something or that if they didn't like how the board was that they should leave.