I'm still trying to figure out what to get for my first lightweight shelter. I was looking over the community gear lists and was surprised to see how many people use tarps. Seems like at least 75% of the lists I have looked at are using a tarp/ground sheet or tarp/bivy combo for a shelter. I was leaning that way myself but my son is not real excited about a tarp. Is there some kind of ball park weight I should be shooting for when shopping for a shelter? A Squall 2 would be 17oz a person. A Stratospire 2 would be 20oz a person. A bit more than if we got a tarp and two bivies. I can't believe how hard it is to make a decision about what shelter system to use. Maybe I should get the tarp and bivies and see if my son likes them. If not guess I could always get a tent later.

I think an MLD Speedmid with perimeter netting would be an ideal lightweight father/son shelter with no need for bivies and plenty of room for gear, cooking, and hanging out. Pair it with a carbon pole from Ruta Locura or a pair of trekking poles and you've got some serious coverage for well under 2 pounds. I currently use a GoLite Shangri La 3 with my kids, but the Speedmid will likely replace it soon.
Read Ryan Jordan's review of it- linked on the MLD Speedmid page.

If you have a backyard, you could buy a cheap tarp from your local hardware store and pitch it. Sleep out there with your son for a night or two and see if he likes it.

Some of the pyramid tarps are more "tenty" than a flat or cat tarp. This may be a good middle ground for you and your son.

Edited by T.L. on 12/17/2011 23:06:49 MST.

How old is your son? Is he scared under a tarp or is he just skeptical that it will keep the bugs and elements off?
I have mostly tarped last couple years for a couple of reasons. One is weight savings, the other is cost. A tarp is just cheaper. As far as weight goes a 18oz MLD DuoMid plus a really light ground cloth is really pretty competative with the weights of a two man tarp plus bivies. One thing to factor in with all this is your sleeping bag/quilt. I have a quilt at the moment and like it but it needs to be paired with a bivy to control drafts. Since I already had a bivy/tarp when I switched to quilts this works for me. If I was getting a DuoMid I'd consider a mummy bag instead. Hope that helps.

I was the same way as your son but then i bought a shaped tarp and realized they are not too bad. My vote is for a MLD Trailstar and a couple of John West's ultralight weight bivies. 20 oz for the tarp and 6 oz x 2 for the bivies. Approximately 32 oz total. Trailstars pop up on gearswap occasionally for about $150 and the bivies are $80 each. If you don't like it, the trailstar will sell on GS in a few hours.

Edited by ianders on 12/18/2011 07:51:29 MST.

My son is 14. His main concern is the elements.

If the elements is his concern then I agree that a shaped tarp or pyramid tarp would be a good place to start. The trailstar is a good one, but your son may feel more protected in a pyramid tarp. Oware has some nice pyramid tarps. 9x9 would be a good size for you and your son. Doing a trial run in the yard with a cheap blue tarp is a good idea too.

Edited by catalyst81 on 12/18/2011 10:44:35 MST.

"My son is 14. His main concern is the elements."

Time for him to experience and learn. A flat tarp it the most elemental and the most will be learned from it. A "shaped" tarp like a Shangri-La 2 would be a good compromise-- light like a tarp and looks like a tent. It is just a couple ounces more than the 1-person version, so you can also use it solo with little penalty.

I think the problem is there are too many potential choices.

You probably need to narrow down what is most important to both of you.

1. tarp
2. tarp/bivy
3. shaped tarp
4. shaped tarp/bivy
5. shaped tarp w/perimeter netting
6. shaped tarp with inner net/bathtub floor
7. single wall tent/hybrids with bathtub floor
8. pyramid shelters wo inner nets
9. pyramid shelters w/ inner nets/bathtub floors
10. pyramid shelterw w/perimeter netting
11. lightwt double wall tents w/bathtub floors
12. conventional double wall tents w/bathtub floors
13. 4 season double wall tents

and probably several more I missed. Also choices of cuben or silnylon, and 1 or 2 person, and trekking pole supported or not.

personally, I would consider anything under 2 lb per person to be light enough when it can be split, and 1-1.5 lb per person would be great. Thats what many tote solo , but that depends on your wt goals.

Of course, some single wall/hybrid tents cannot be split, so somebody has to carry the wholething. Likely you, Dad. May not be a bad thing since you probably want to keep the kids pack as light as possible.

Edited by livingontheroad on 12/18/2011 20:01:00 MST.

You hit the nail on the head when you say there are too many choices. Trying to figure out what system to buy for a shelter has been somewhat daunting. Lots of different configurations all with their own pros and cons with no real clear winners. As of today my two favorites are the GG SpinnTwinn or MLD Duomid. Either one of these will be paired with bivies. Depending on the bivy the total weight would be somewhere between 25-30oz for two people. Only 13-15oz per person. Of course tomorrow I may have changed my mind and go for something a lot cheaper like a Squall 2.

If you go with the SpinnTwinn, another options is the YAMA Bug Shelter 2.0 instead of bivies. I think you may even be able to get it with solid silnylon at both the head and foot ends to give you a little more protection from the elements....and a little more privacy.

Check out zpacks.com
His shaped tarps plus an inner net offer full bug and rain protection for VERY little weight. In fact, lighter than a lot of tarp/bivie set ups. He offers perimeter netting, but that doesn't cut it for me. I want protection from mosquitoes as well as ticks, spiders, snakes, etc.

Frankly, a lot of people who have tarps on their gear lists really usually use something else and just tarp it when they are in a fanatical mood. Also, there is some degree of one-upsmanship at issue. Mind you, their other shelters are still wicked light by any traditional standard, but there you are.

Also, the fanatics are the ones most likely to even POST a gear list. If I have one, for instance, it is incredibly out of date.

For must uses I've kind of settled into being a (floorless) 'mid guy, but I do get into a fanatical mood every so often.

Edited by acrosome on 12/19/2011 01:11:44 MST.

Some of the reasons why I went with a tent (TT Notch specifically)...

- What is the difference between say a TT Moment and a tarp? It's a tarp and a groundcloth connected with some bug netting. Why deal with bugs and bivys when you can just have a tent that protects against both?
- Fiddle factor setting up a tarp, bivy, bug netting maybe, adjust it, customize the pitch versus set up the tent the same way each time
- Bugs and creepy crawlies (ants, roaches, salamanders, centipedes, mosquitos, ticks) I have woken up with a roach crawling on my face before and I just don't like it. I am in the SE but I'm sure ya'll have your various creepy crawlies in Utah.
- Bivy's can have their own condensation issues as can any tarp that comes down close to the ground.

Also with the three new TT designs you can use it and try it out as a tarp. If you end up eventually wanting just a tarp you can EASILY sell your Stratospire for close to what you paid for it.

What would be the weight difference between the Stratospire II versus a SilNylon Tarp, groundcloth, and a bivy? Can't be much if any.

Do people love places where there aren't bugs? So many of the shelters I see posted here would be hell in Minnesota, where the mosquitos come out in force to drain your precious bodily fluids.

Edited by tekhna on 12/19/2011 08:37:13 MST.

My 2 cents.

"20 oz for the tarp and 6 oz x 2 for the bivies. Approximately 32 oz total."

At those weights, for an extra 4oz each, I'd pay to not be in a bivy at the end of the night.

Ya, i love the simplicity of my TT Contrail. unroll.. stake out corners.. set front pole. done. break down is even faster.

even with only a few uses i'm spoiled by that. i used my double wall tent car camping this week and i was like ugh poles and inner tent and having to pack it all up.

The more I think about it the more I think you should buy a TT Stratospire II. Your son is not sure about tarps...SSII gives you the option of a tarp or a double wall tent. The weight difference is 8 oz, 4 oz per person. That is practically nothing. Why would you want to compromise on sleeping comfort, ease of setup for 4 oz each?

Also I don't see the point in using an enclosed bivy and a tarp versus just using a tent. It's basically like having a big tarp with a tiny inner tent. All you are saving is a little bit of ground cloth and bug netting, thats the only difference.

I just ordered a TT Stratospire 2. 20oz per person is not bad for a double wall tent. It's cheaper that most the other options I was looking at. Plus I like the idea of being able to use the fly or bug net/floor separately. My wife goes with us sometimes and we should all be able to fit. All three of us fit in an REI Half Dome 2 in the past. When my younger two kids start doing more backpacking I can let them sleep in the Stratospire and I'll start experimenting with tarps.

Good deal. From what you have said I think you will really like it.

I should get my Notch today, can't wait to set it up tonight.