Forum Index » General Lightweight Backpacking Discussion » Open Letter: Don't make the Gear Swap for members only


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Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife
Re: Open Letter: Don't make the Gear Swap for members only on 12/16/2011 20:23:15 MST Print View

I've said my piece.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Open Letter: Don't make the Gear Swap for members only on 12/16/2011 20:38:55 MST Print View

Last post here on BPL before I leave for a couple week trip.

Okay, we have hashed this out. We know the pros and cons. We know how paying members feel (pro & con) and we know how non-paying members feel (pro & con).

We have members in both camps who are valuable contributors to BPL.

Time to stop the bashing, which is turning into hateful diatribes. Time to stop posting in this thread. Whatever becomes of Gear Swap and BPL is out of our hands. It is up to Ryan. And he has enough feedback to make or change his decisions.

It is time to get back to gear, techniques, trip reports, and more importantly respect for each other. We are becoming a house divided, and THAT is not something Ryan can fix.

Happy Holidays to all, and hopefully Santa will bring you that something special you can share with the ENTIRE community on Dec 26th.

Peace on Earth, and Good Will to ALL on BPL!

- Nick

David Goodyear
(dmgoody) - MLife

Locale: mid-west
wow on 12/16/2011 21:43:11 MST Print View

I go to work and there is 3 more pages of this stuff. I thought it was settled when I left. Lets talk gear, or maybe get out on the trail. I've got a slihgtly used compass and map to make more used....

See ya in the woods,

Dave

R C
(beenay25) - F

Locale: Midwest
Re: wow on 12/16/2011 23:37:18 MST Print View

David,
I don't understand. Did you just stop in to tell people to stop discussing something you don't like?

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: wow on 12/16/2011 23:42:49 MST Print View

R C,
I don't understand. Did you just stop in to tell people to continue discussing something you don't like?

R C
(beenay25) - F

Locale: Midwest
Re: Re: Re: wow on 12/17/2011 00:04:40 MST Print View

>>R C,
>>I don't understand. Did you just stop in to tell people to continue discussing something you don't like?

Well that wasn't very mature.

Wild Exped
(bankse) - MLife

Locale: Tasmania (down under downunder)
CONUS on 12/17/2011 00:56:56 MST Print View

Is a horrible thing to see after a for sale post. On behalf of all the international members I vote that those selling on this (an international site) should be made to educate themselves as to how easy it is to ship world wide. No worldwide shipping option, no add.

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: Re: Re: wow on 12/17/2011 01:19:17 MST Print View

>Well that wasn't very mature.

Maybe, maybe not. But my point still holds true.

All I'm saying is that this is/can be viewed from both sides of the table. You want BPL to reverse their policy and convince others of the same, just as people who are OK with it want you to accept that this is BPL's decision to make and no one else's.

People complain of the "Member Elite," but those who fight and complain about BPL's policies, especially when they are non-paying, are actually the ones who exude much more of a sense of entitlement; that they are *entitled* to free articles or just as much information as MLIFEers, or a free Gear Swap. They BItch and complain about what they're not getting for free, which is actually very selfish.

If it were up to me, I'd have the moderators delete every post after Nick's last one. It would be a good and positive ending to this ridiculous circus.

Edited by T.L. on 12/17/2011 01:59:26 MST.

R C
(beenay25) - F

Locale: Midwest
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: wow on 12/17/2011 03:39:42 MST Print View

>"Maybe, maybe not. But my point still holds true."

Travis,
What point? All you did was mock me with a silly playground retort.


>"All I'm saying is that this is/can be viewed from both sides of the table. You want BPL to reverse their policy and convince others of the same, just as people who are OK with it want you to accept that this is BPL's decision to make and no one else's."

Actually, a lot of people appreciate input from their userbase when they change their website. Believe it or not, but the purpose of an "open letter" isn't to start a fight with other users.


>"People complain of the "Member Elite," but those who fight and complain about BPL's policies, especially when they are non-paying, are actually the ones who exude much more of a sense of entitlement; that they are *entitled* to free articles or just as much information as MLIFEers, or a free Gear Swap. They BItch and complain about what they're not getting for free, which is actually very selfish."

Elitism is where a person or a group of people believe that they are better than the rest, and I think your post is a perfect example of it. Why is it that I can only choose between being a saintly Mlifer, who can do no wrong, and being an entitled leech, who never contributed a cent to the site?

It makes no sense, and also conveniently ignores the fact that I have, in the past, paid for a year subscription, bought hundreds of dollars worth of merchandise from the store when it was open (did I forget to mention that?), and contributed good posts and good threads that surely played a small part in keeping new users coming back to the website. By contrast, elitist posts like yours probably turn new users off of the site. I wouldn't be proud of myself if I called someone selfish for submitting their opinion on a public forum.


>"If it were up to me, I'd have the moderators delete every post after Nick's last one. It would be a good and positive ending to this ridiculous circus."

Eloquent as he is, Nick isn't the spokesman for everyone who uses this site. You're free to follow David's example and stop reading the thread, but if other people continue to post in it, don't blame them for it. That's a judgment call you are not in a position to make, no matter how much moral high ground you think your two years of BPL subscription has given you over me, which, looking at the numbers, it probably shouldn't give you any.

Oh and in case you think I'm making this up, I've attached a screenshot showing the "donations" an "entitled non-member" like me has "contributed" over the course of my membership. Please think about this next time you get ready to write off what somebody says just because they don't have an orange M by their name.

.

Edited by beenay25 on 12/17/2011 03:54:42 MST.

David Goodyear
(dmgoody) - MLife

Locale: mid-west
open letter to R C on 12/17/2011 05:32:55 MST Print View

If you read my Original post,then you should be thanking me for my easy solution to your problem. Instead you go on and on for 3 more pages. I am a simple man and don't understand why you would prefer this thread to a thread about how to find a hike in a beautiful area or how to lighten your pack.

My offer still stands - 1 backpack per year.

Now go enjoy yourself and have fun young man.



Dave

R C
(beenay25) - F

Locale: Midwest
Re: open letter to R C on 12/17/2011 05:39:10 MST Print View

David,
Duly noted.

Wild Exped
(bankse) - MLife

Locale: Tasmania (down under downunder)
CONUS on 12/17/2011 06:19:13 MST Print View

(....just thought i'd slip that in to such a popular thread ; ) )

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: wow on 12/17/2011 08:50:44 MST Print View

@RC

"Oh and in case you think I'm making this up, I've attached a screenshot showing the "donations" an "entitled non-member" like me has "contributed" over the course of my membership."

I've reviewed the list. You 'donated' $24.99 for a membership once in 2007. All the other purchases were for material goods, suitably bartered.

Just wanted to clarify that. Carry on.

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: wow on 12/17/2011 10:40:19 MST Print View

Your post is full of conjecture, assumption, and hypocrisy.


>Believe it or not, but the purpose of an "open letter" isn't to start a fight with other users.

Correct. However, where did I say you started a fight? Although, you do seem to spend a lot of time railing against BPL and those who disagree with you, and you even began your crusade by bringing up the "elite" in the OP. You seem to be the only one fixated on the "elite."


>Elitism is where a person or a group of people believe that they are better than the rest, and I think your post is a perfect example of it. Why is it that I can only choose between being a saintly Mlifer, who can do no wrong, and being an entitled leech, who never contributed a cent to the site?

Please, please, please show me where I said I was better than anyone. And also show me where I said you had to choose between being an MLIFEer or an entitled leech. And also show me where I assumed you had never contributed a cent to this site. All I said is that you are complaining about not receiving a free service any more. You yourself even said:

"this is a free market. Somebody is asking money for one service and offering another service for free. If the prices don't work for them, then they are obliged to change their prices. And that's just what they did... ...Since I'm not willing to pay the current price, I'm trying to haggle. And that's what it comes down to."

And that's what it comes down to. You don't want to pay the price offered up in a free market, so you complain and rail against some invented class of "elite." It's perfectly cool that you want Gear Swap to be free. So do I. In fact, I thought the open letter you started was good, but you took an unnecessary embattled stance soon into the thread and it didn't help your cause.



>By contrast, elitist posts like yours probably turn new users off of the site. I wouldn't be proud of myself if I called someone selfish for submitting their opinion on a public forum.

Again? Where did I say I was better than anyone? I implore you to show me. AHEM. By contrast, YOU'RE the one laying down a laundry list of reasons why you're a supposed "value" to BPL.

"I have, in the past, paid for a year subscription, bought hundreds of dollars worth of merchandise from the store when it was open (did I forget to mention that?), and contributed good posts and good threads that surely played a small part in keeping new users coming back to the website."

Not only that, but you used a chart to prove it. Whoa. Also, I didn't call anyone selfish because they submitted their opinion. I said that expecting something for free and profusely complaining about it was.


>no matter how much moral high ground you think your two years of BPL subscription has given you over me...

Yet again, where did I say anything about my moral high ground?


>Please think about this next time you get ready to write off what somebody says just because they don't have an orange M by their name.

Did I write you off? I was simply submitting my opinion in a public forum. Did I mention, or even allude to an Orange M? Yet again, nope.



Now, in the words of Ken, I've said my piece, and will not be entertaining this any further.

Peace.

Erik Basil
(EBasil) - M

Locale: Atzlan
Movement on 12/17/2011 10:43:12 MST Print View

Unrelated to this thread, but in regard to a much more polite interaction--directly to the mods-- this response came to an esteemed member of the elite cadre:

"...the forum software is hosted and maintained by a different company. Unless we choose to pay through the nose to tweak anything (even minor things), we have to play by their rules.

We're hoping to change this in the coming year. "

Okay, read what you need to, but one can therefore infer. Personally, I see movement toward the Big Rock Candy Mountain.

R C
(beenay25) - F

Locale: Midwest
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: wow on 12/17/2011 17:28:39 MST Print View

Re David Ure:
Incorrect. I paid ~$315 for goods and services that all had their own overhead and profit margins. I'm confused why you think an online magazine it free to write and distribute, or how you propose an online store could do business without a profit margin. Please enlighten me.

Re Travis:
Being obtuse never got anybody anywhere. I'm sorry you seem to think you can get away with saying anything but not be held accountable for it. Similarly, quoting me out of context to prove a point you simultaneously deny saying is not endearing. I think all you've proven is that I was right to think that members would team up on me.

joseph peterson
(sparky) - F

Locale: Southern California
Open Letter: Don't make the Gear Swap for members only on 12/17/2011 17:54:39 MST Print View

Some people think the membership is worth it, some don't, and there is a billion shades of grey in between. It's a stupid internet site. Who cares?!

Stop taking the internet, and yourself for that matter, so seriously! Or don't, its up to you....it just all seems....so.....dorky! :-). Don't be an internet dork, go out and hike!

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: wow on 12/18/2011 02:44:39 MST Print View

> I paid ~$315 for goods and services that all had their own overhead and profit margins.

Sadly, it turned out that the profit margin on the shop was ... well, the shop closed, didn't it?

Cheers

Dave T
(DaveT) - F
gear. on 12/18/2011 04:31:47 MST Print View

"Sadly, it turned out that the profit margin on the shop was ... well, the shop closed, didn't it?"


Correlation is not always causation.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: wow on 12/18/2011 08:47:12 MST Print View

@RC - you referred to your purchases as 'contributions.' I don't see how.