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The Lowdown on Down: An Update
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eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
The Lowdown on Down: An Update on 12/15/2011 02:00:25 MST Print View

interesting ...

i wonder about other manufacturers ...

We are not comfortable using down from force-fed geese. We have learned much from our research but still have no short-term alternative source for down from geese that are neither live-plucked nor force-fed. We are continuing to deepen our knowledge of down supply chains and to talk with Four Paws and other NGOs that have something to teach us.

We are also participating in the formation of an Outdoor Industry Association and Textile Exchange Task Force on Down Products and Supply Chains and its parent Traceability Work Group. The goal is collaboration among brands and suppliers to establish standards and methodologies for traceability in complex supply chains. We will meet for the first time in January.

We are committed to finding a long-term solution. We’ll keep you posted on our progress.

In the meantime, the caveats we mentioned last spring still apply. If you’re a vegan whose avoidance of animal products extends to shoe leather, you may also want to avoid down clothing. And if you think foie gras should not be produced or sold you may also want to avoid its by-product. We offer a number of synthetically insulated garments. Synthetic insulation, while not as efficient as down, works better than down in wet conditions.

Art Sandt
(artsandt) - F
Lightweight Backpacking Discussion = "Geese Treatment" on 12/15/2011 05:33:20 MST Print View

Hey Eric, I heard of this cool new board where topics meander into all sorts of directions. You might like it. I just forgot its name. What was it again... something having to do with the stuff you throw away when threshing grains...hmmm. It sounds kind of like a certain kind of rash you get from rubbing too. I just can't think of the name. Do you know the name of the board I'm thinking of?

Edited by artsandt on 12/15/2011 05:36:20 MST.

James Marco
(jamesdmarco) - MLife

Locale: Finger Lakes
Re: Lightweight Backpacking Discussion = "Geese Treatment" on 12/15/2011 06:17:18 MST Print View

Down is a *byproduct*. Even if every one decided not to use down bags and clothing, it would not hugely impact the meat market. Soo, I guess it is better to use all of what we kill, than throwing away parts of it that are unusable.

My penny's worth...

John S.
(jshann) - F
Re: The Lowdown on Down: An Update on 12/15/2011 08:55:47 MST Print View

This belongs in Chaff.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
Re: Lightweight Backpacking Discussion = "Geese Treatment" on 12/15/2011 11:30:22 MST Print View

hmmmm ... at it again art?

the post above is the down used by patagucci ... which is used by many here in UL gear and on hikes

also many other brands use down as well ..

there have been questions and threads by people on this board about the usage and sourcing of down which were NOT in chaff before

if you dont like it ask the mods to move it ;)

Edited by bearbreeder on 12/15/2011 11:32:39 MST.

Chad Miller

Locale: Duluth, Minnesota
Re: Re: Lightweight Backpacking Discussion = "Geese Treatment" on 12/16/2011 07:46:14 MST Print View

The mods did move it so . . .

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
move on 12/16/2011 12:45:43 MST Print View

well the next time we see a thread about the sourcing of down ... ill be sure flag it to the mods that it should be chaff ...

not a relevant topic to know if yr down comes from plucked live geese ... or from ones forced fed for foie gras ...

patagucci (good for them) seems to think its important for their gear

Thomas Burns
(nerdboy52) - MLife

Locale: "Alas, poor Yogi.I knew him well."
Chaff? on 12/16/2011 13:17:30 MST Print View

Well, I for one, appreciate Eric's posts. This one is relevant to backpacking and gear selection in the same way that a discussion of "Leave No Trace" ethics is relevant. I may not agree with everything he posts, but I appreciate the discussion. We need to be conscious of the effect that our hobby has on the world, and that includes the choices we make in the purchase of gear.

A part of the Hippocratic Oath may apply (to paraphrase): If you can do no good, at least do no harm. I'd like to think it applies to the gear we buy as well as the hike we take. I realize that that's an impossible goal to achieve, but at least we can try.


Chad Miller

Locale: Duluth, Minnesota
Re: Chaff? on 12/16/2011 19:26:30 MST Print View

So that animal hide you're wearing wasn't skinned off a dead animal but was shed right? ;)

Edited by chadnsc on 12/16/2011 19:27:47 MST.

Thomas Burns
(nerdboy52) - MLife

Locale: "Alas, poor Yogi.I knew him well."
Chaff? on 12/16/2011 19:35:31 MST Print View

Sad story on the bear skin and skull. About 30 years ago, a young bear wandered into one of the Columbus Metro Parks scavenging for food. The rangers had to put him down. They keep the skin and skull as an exhibit and a reminder of shrinking habitats. There are no bears left in Ohio.

With apologies to Bill Shakespeare:

Alas, poor Yogi. I knew him, Boo-boo. He was a bear of infinite appetite. So they shot him.


Edited by nerdboy52 on 12/16/2011 19:36:26 MST.

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
"The Lowdown on Down: An Update" on 12/16/2011 20:11:22 MST Print View

Nice edit there on your last post Chad.

Thanks for sharing the link Eric. If only more companies had the resources to follow the string back to their product sourcing as Patagonia is openly doing here with great success. I for one am interested to see how they respond in the future. It's good to see a company take such a transparent position, irregardless if it is somehow motivated by the increase of sales and customer brand loyalty.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Chaff? on 12/16/2011 20:26:47 MST Print View

"There are no bears left in Ohio."

I believe that the residents of the Lake Tahoe area would like to have a couple of dozen trucked out to Ohio.


Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Deep Frreze
What about Oil on 12/17/2011 06:30:30 MST Print View

What about all the oil thats used to make outdoor products.

Terry Trimble
(socal-nomad) - F

Locale: North San Diego county
The Lowdown on Down: An Update on 12/17/2011 11:38:49 MST Print View

Most synthetic fabric and fills are lubricated with animal by products when manufacturing them. I guess you can walk around in the buff and eat range free growing weeds. But wait I remember back in the 70's people use to talk to their plants because plants have feelings also and they get hurt when you pull a leaf or berry off. So I guess you will starve to death.

The truth is Vegan/Vegetarian life style is lie and fad for people and I am surrounded by Yoga, Vegan,Vegetarians in my town.
And every Vegan/Vegetarian sooner or later backslides in to the meat eater lifestyle.

Edited by socal-nomad on 12/17/2011 11:40:47 MST.

David T
(DaveT) - F
one more... on 12/17/2011 15:49:27 MST Print View

... for the chaffstarta.

Erik Basil

Locale: Atzlan
Hey it's chaff, right? on 12/19/2011 09:45:55 MST Print View

So, what turns out to be quite a few years ago, my family were enjoying a studio-audience trip to The Tonight Show and there were a series of "Cowboy Poet" guests. This fella gets up and, in a cadence like Robert W. Service, elocuted on crimes against vegetables...because plants have feelings, too.

It's on YouTube and I'm gonna have to send this one up to my Dad.