Greetings, I'm looking for any general thoughts on having gortex lining in my (upcoming) new trail shoes.

-What is the good?
-what is the not so good?

Thanks,
Doug

What's good:

Your feet will stay dry in you step in puddles, etc. that are below the tops of your shoes.

What's not so good:

If you have to step in water above your ankles, your feet will get wet and stay wet because the Gortex will hold the water in. I have an old pair of Hurricane Ridges that I keep primarily to remind me that Gortex, despite its advantages in other areas, is not suitable for hiking shoes, in out out.

Far better (and cheaper) during winter months, is a pair of grocery or newspaper bags, which you can rubber band to your calves for deep river crossings. In warmer months, use a pair of shoes that dry fast (like Vibrams or Propet Walkers), and just wade right in.

Just my two cents, but the one thing you need to protect above all when BPing is your feet. Gortex just doesn't do the job.

Stargazer

Edited by nerdboy52 on 12/14/2011 06:39:07 MST.

doug~ i formerly used montrails (with gore-tex) for both my AT and LT thru-hikes. if it weren't for the outstanding traction on my choice model, then i most definitely wouldn't have purchased a gore product. feet need to breathe, and my experience was the precise opposite-- though this too is the (b)east coast where moisture prevails, even in summer. my feet were constantly red, raw and tender. at every opportunity possible, i found myself needing to air them out. blisters failed to heal. while my trailmates with their gore-tex deprived models carried on in relative comfort, my feet took a beating to behold. never again! leslie

I'm in total agreement with Thomas. Deep water isn't the only thing. If its raining hard enough water will run down your leg into your shoes and soak them from the top down. I have had good luck using Goretex socks when I had to wade through spring snow. The good thing about them is I can take them off when I'm done with them. They don't last as long but for occasional us I like them better.

Edit - I just saw you're in Ontario. I believe Ontario can be like NY at times. Lots of rain for long periods, and lots of mud. Am I right? The downside of breathable trail runners in those conditions is that they let mud in as well as water. Maybe goretex socks are a good idea. Or maybe some Goretex boots with higher tops?

Edited by Cameron on 12/14/2011 06:53:53 MST.

I like them for cold, dry dusty conditions like the beach and desert. Keeps the dust out. If water is around then I don't wear lined shoes for all the above reasons listed...

Another thing is I have found gore-tex does not stay waterproof forever, especially in shoes/boots. So if you buy shoes/boots with goretex sewn into them you are eventually stuck with leaky goretex. Better to buy goretex socks that can easily be replaced.

Its really the same thing. If you compare goretex shoes/boots versus shoes without goretex, its just a bootie sewn into the shoe, why not just have removable, replaceable bootie...also known as a sock.

I like to pair goretex lined shoes with gaiters in snow that exceeds 6" in depth. The goretex seems to handle some snow melt well, and help keep your feet warmer. I dont like gore for much else though.

Concur with all the above, including GoreTex socks. It turns your footwear into an adaptable modular system, like all the rest of your gear should be. Plus in the long run the GoreTex socks give more service because they're not getting battered by flexing and ground with abrasive trail grit with every step. You only have them on your feet when needed. Plus you get the option of GoreTex protection in any pair of shoes you like.

I'm surprised they're not more popular.

IMO, a goretex lining is pointless in footwear that isn't 8" high or more. In a lower shoe, water coming over the top is inevitable and that expensive membrane is quickly rendered useless. A higher shoe and careful foot placement makes goretex lining in a boot very effective. Over many years, my old boots with goretex lining never once had water come in. However, boots like that are not UL. If you want dry feet without the weight penalty, goretex socks are the way to go.

Edit for clarity distinguishing boot liners from socks.

Edited by spelt on 12/14/2011 11:21:30 MST.

Which GoreTex socks have people been using? Which ones should be avoided?

I'm curious about what people are using, as well. Took a quick look at the reviews online, and people seemed to not like them. They leak, let water in, are expensive, and hold in the sweat. I'll stick to my grocery bags until somebody shows me that Gore-Tex is worth the $30.00 - $60.00 price tag.

Stargazer

http://www.rei.com/product/688268/rocky-gore-tex-oversocks-socks

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/rocky_gore-tex_sock_spotlite_review.html

(- Anna linked to Will's BPL review of GoreTex socks -)

Exactly. I figured everyone here had seen this. Dunno why we still have people saying GoreTex socks don't work. I got the Rocky brand ones from Cabela's long ago and they're the shiznit. If you look at some of Will's pics, you see that the GoreTex sock stays up much higher than the top of a trail running shoe. So it provides lots of hightop protection; you don't have to use them with 8" boots. Of course how well they stay up will be affected by how they fit you personally.

It's true that if you use these socks without WP/B pants in steady rain, eventually you will have water running down into them and then its a mess. But how different is that from using plastic bags that fill up with sweat in 10 minutes? Also if I'm going out in rough weather that will be at all cool (the same weather I bring GoreTex socks for), I will have my 7oz pair of Marmot PreCip pants which will overlap the socks. I've gone for days in nonstop rain with this combo and I stayed remarkably dry. If it's warm enough to not need the PreCip pants, it's warm enough not to bring the GoreTex socks.

Quote from Will's review:
"We wore the Rocky Gore-Tex Socks in non-waterproof trail runners (shown without a gaiter for the photo) for snow hiking and snowshoeing in temperatures down to about 20 °F. Our shoes got thoroughly wet but we hardly knew it because our feet stayed dry and warm. When we weighed our socks at home, there was little or no moisture in them. We were impressed!"

Try achieving that performance with bread bags.

I forgot to mention above another great feature of these socks: they allow you to separate the GoreTex from the shoe for much easier drying of both after a super gloppy day on the trail.

Edited by El_Canyon on 12/14/2011 11:00:41 MST.

Will R did a 3 part series on winter footwear systems. One of his best in my opinion. Take a look at it. The Rocky GoreTex socks have worked out fine for me for snow work, but in winter you need to size up your shoes, meaning a dedicated winter shoe.

Overall I have been disappointed in GoreTex shoes, as mentioned by others. However I have a pair I sometimes wear for winter desert hiking where I expect cold, lots of loose sand, and limited precipitation. The material keeps out the sand. If I anticipate water crossings, puddles, etc. the GoreTex shoes stay at home.

I think mine were Sealskins or something like that. They were the cheapest I could find at REI. They do wear out a bit faster than normal Goretex. I think I heard 3 weeks of continues use somewhere. They also dont' stretch as much as normal socks so make sure they fit well. I wear them over a pair of smartwool socks. Good socks make any kind of goretex footwear much more enjoyable. Even if they leak a bit they are still going to help keep the mud and cold out better.
Again I usually like breathable trail runners but really muddy conditions are a bit different. I've seen some conditions that were just so nasty I would have got boots of some kind if I was going to spend a lot of time there.

+1 for Rockys.
When the supply started drying up over here, i stockpiled a few pair.

+1 on Rockys

Keep my feet dry when other are cold and wet.

My only complaints:

Slightly narrow and constricting in the fore foot

Top of the sock around the ankle is inadequate. I.e if its raining and you are wearing shorts water will run down your legs and into the top of the socks, loose and non waterproof material.

I have been thinking about sewing a two inch band of neoprene in place of the flimsy fabric on top. Tighter stretchy fit, water proof seal.

"if its raining and you are wearing shorts water will run down your legs and into the top of the socks"

If it's warm enough to wear shorts, i woudn't be wearing my Rockys.

Edit. I find the top of the socks tight, but i've got walkers calves. ;)

Edited by MikefaeDundee on 12/14/2011 11:27:33 MST.

The time I was most thankful for my Rockys was when it was just above freezing in the smokies, raining, everyone got to camp with miserable cold wet feet, mine were only cold, granted I had pants on.

Yea I guess it is just I love hiking in shorts and not pants even when it is colder out. For the freedom of movement, but I want to keep my feet warm and dry. Rockies come close to accomplishing that. With some improvement I think they could be perfect.

Err by walkers calves do you mean kankles?

Clint, any issues with the narrowness? I just got a pair and noticed that they were a little snug around the balls of my feet. I'm most worried about blisters caused from cramped toes.

You have to really size up. My street shoes are normally 10.5 and running shoes 11.5. The size 12 Rocky socks were too small and I ended up with size 13. You do not want tight socks in cold weather.

Nick,
I normally wear an 11 while hiking, so I got the size 12 Rockys. The 13s seemed a bit baggy. Maybe go with the baggier pair?

I also plan on sizing up my shoe.

Edited by T.L. on 12/14/2011 11:58:32 MST.

IMO baggy socks in winter trump tight ones :) just as long the the socks don't get bunched up and folded. A slightly thicker wool sock might help too. The problem with the Rockys is that they are often difficult to locate. Took me a while to find those size 13s. But I only use them in full snow conditions. If I expect sections of snow with some dry areas and day time temps not below freezing, then I just wear my normal shoes and wool socks.

A couple years ago Wisner and I did a lot of miles in deep snow over two days, but daytime temps were well above freezing. We both brought plastic bags, which were not needed. I wore XC racing flats and I think Craig had MT101s. We were both quite happy with our footwear. Our feet got wet at times, but we were moving continuously and they dried out during the non-snow sections.

Luke
"Edit - I just saw you're in Ontario. I believe Ontario can be like NY at times. Lots of rain for long periods, and lots of mud. Am I right? "

It's Dec 14, 5 degrees Celcious and raining in southern Ontario, crappy.

Temperature hovering around freezing.
The muddy foot deep bog is still making its mind up.
The pristine white snow looks beautiful.
Till you step on it, and sink into the freezing foot deep mud below.
And again.
And again.
10 miles feels like 20 miles.
No drying off, either during the night, or for weeks.
I love my Rockys. :)

Travis,

As Nick said you have to size up. I am normally a size 10 so I went with a size 11 sock. For Winter use I would go up even another size for the use of a thicker sock underneath.

I normally used a pair of toe socks to keep my from toes apart and blister free.

They can be tight getting on and off rounding the ankle, I blew a seam taking them on or off cant remember which. I just sewed them up, did not retape them but they have seen alot of use so a new pair is in order. If I can find the material I might make myself a custom fitting pair solving the issues with rockies.

I like Goretex trail runners in the winter with tall goretex gaiters. The gaiters solve many of the issues noted above - they keep out the snow and rain, and keep out water from puddles and even creek fords if one walks quickly enough. The shoe/gaiter combo is more comfortable for me than winter boots. I've not tried the w/b socks, so I can't comment on those.

I like my Rocky gortex socks but I use them differently than most people on this thread.

I don't mind walking with wet feet but in camp I want my feet to be dry. I carry the Rocky gortex socks when hiking and put them on over a dry, very thin weight sock when I get to camp. This allows me to have dry feet in my soaking wet shoes while in camp. The next day I just put my wet (wool) socks back on and continue hiking. I don't like to hike in the gortex socks for the same reason I don't like gortex shoes... they are hot and sweaty when you are on the move.

Err by walkers calves do you mean kankles?

I'm thinking he meant calf muscles of unusual size. Sure, they look impressive, but they make buying gaiters a pain in the a**. I have to slide the tops of the Rocky socks down about an inch and a half or they cut off circulation to my feet.