What are some good things to remember when melting snow? I'm sure there's more to it than just dumping snow in a pot (at least with BPL standards).

Is it better to start with a little water in the pot to begin with?

Should I compact the snow before I add it?

Is the older, more compacted snow below the surface better?

I don't have much experience with melting snow myself, but I would answer a definite yes to all of those questions.

Travis, you must have an inch or so of water in the pot before you add the snow. Otherwise, the pot will scorch. Funny how that works. Also, I find that uncompacted snow will melt quicker than a snowball. Try it on your Wisconsin winter patio and you'll figure it out right away.

Thanks guys.

Gary....no snow yet!

No snow there? Man, I have a full foot in my yard, and my north facing driveway looks like a blue ice glacier. Want me to FedEx you a box of Colorado snow as a PIF gesture?

That'd be awesome! Would mind throwing in one of your cool Colorado mountains as well? We're short on mountains here.

Edited by T.L. on 12/08/2011 13:31:55 MST.

As a few other have said:

1. Use a larger diameter pot that is about 1.5 times bigger than your stove burner. It's will be more fuel efficient and melt the snow faster.

2. Have around five times the volume of clean snow compared to the amount of water you want to make. Snow is very low in moisture content and it takes a lot of snow to make water.

3. Have some water in your pot otherwise you'll scorch your pot and get 'burnt' water.

4. When you first start out melting snow sir it often and once you build up a couple inches of water in your pot you can simply dump in fist size chunks of snow without having to do much with it.

5. Keep the lid on your pot as much as possible!

6. When you do take the lid off you pot to stir the snow / water mixture be careful where you put the lid. If you simply put the hot lid on the ground snow will stick to it then melt off after you put it back on your pot. This could douse your stove.

7. You'll have dirt and organic matter floating around in your newly melted water. I recommend filtering your water through a reusable nylon coffee filter to get the gunk out.

8. Pouring your newly made water from your pot to you water bottle can be a messy PAIN! (even more so if you're using a narrow mouth container). I recommend getting a small kitchen funnel to help you get all that water from your pot to your bottles without spilling on your gloved hands or down bootied clad feet.



Dang, I never realized how much went into melting snow for water. No wonder it can take so long. ;)

Good stuff, Chad.

>Dang, I never realized how much went into melting snow for water. No wonder it can take so long. ;)

Ha, yeah, that's exactly why I asked! I've learned over the years that even the most mundane activities will have their finer details, especially here on BPL.

More like even the most mundane tasks get a whole new level of difficulty in the winter. ;)

Seriously. Have to pee in the night?

1. Convince yourself that you have to go bad enough to get out of your bag.
2. Fumble with the drawcords for the bag's draft collar and hood/find your headlamp.
3. Unzip the bag.
4. Depending on your system, put on some clothing. (or skip this and bear with the cold)
5. Put some sort of footwear on.
6. Get out of your tent/shelter.
7. Relieve yourself. Cold hands are bad news. Shiver.
8. Dash back in your shelter.
9. Take off necessary footwear/clothing.
10. Get back into your bag.
11. Zip up the zipper.
12. Re-do the drawcords.
13. Ask yourself why you camp in cold weather.

Ah, its not always that bad, but making the list was fun.

1. Grab pee bottle.
2. Open pee bottle.
3. Pee in pee bottle.
4. Close pee bottle.
5. Still warm, go back to sleep.

Believe me. I have been down this road before, but never with Wisconsin snow.

"Is it better to start with a little water in the pot to begin with?"
"Should I compact the snow before I add it?"
"Is the older, more compacted snow below the surface better?"

First, you get your stove all ready to go. Then grab your largest melt pot. I usually use an aluminum pot that is about two quarts, although I have used larger and smaller ones. Wander off from camp a bit and find a clean patch of snow. Using the metal lid, you scrape off the top inch of snow, especially since often there are leaves, pine needles, or dirt in it. That top snow is discarded. Then using the main pot, you scoop it full of clean snow, and you can use the metal lid as a scooping tool if necessary. It depends on the consistency of the snow. Return to the stove and light it. While the stove is reaching its normal temperature, you wipe off the bottom of the melt pot with a glove. You don't want ice or snow hanging on the bottom, because that might extinguish the flame. Put the melt pot on the stove, and immediately pour some liquid water through the snow into the pot. If the pot is level, it should not require too much water to completely cover the bottom. A fraction of an inch of water is sufficient. The advantage of pouring the water through the snow in the pot is that it slightly melts the snow and causes it to form better to the hot pot surface. Once that is started, you can put the metal lid on the pot. From then on, it is all about minimizing lost heat, so keep your windscreen there and maybe even put a piece of aluminum foil loosely over the top of the whole thing. This is also one situation when you need the heat reflector underneath the stove burner to keep reflected heat from melting out the surface underneath the burner. While that first pot of snow is melting, return to your snow gathering site with a plastic bag and a shovel. If you don't have a shovel, then you are going to have to steal the metal lid off the snow melt pot.

For an individual, it doesn't take much more than a gallon-size bag. For a group, I have used a large garbage bag. Shovel more clean snow into the bag, and carry it back to the stove. Keep it at arm's reach so that you don't have to keep running out to get more snow for the melt pot. If you do this right, you can do the melting in the vestibule of a tent and keep the snow bag between the tent layers.

Beginner snow campers will soon learn that liquid water is a valuable resource, and you can produce it easily from snow, assuming that you have the right stove and plenty of fuel. Incidentally, this is one area where wood fires are very good. Wood fires are very hot (which you will know if you have ever seen deformed aluminum cookwear). So, if I think that I will be using a wood fire, I take a titanium pot instead.

Very old snow is dense, so about two quarts of snow will yield one quart of water. Very new powder snow is fluffy, so about ten quarts of snow will yield one quart of water. All snow is different.

--B.G.--

Wow. Pretty well covered on this subject.

The only thing I'd add is that I have a strong preference for remote style stoves for snow melting. I definitely prefer a bigger pot, and a remote stove handles bigger pots better.

However, having said that, I've seen guys use Jetboils and regular canister stoves to melt snow, so each to his own.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

If there is a group of any size, then the snow melting fuel consumption can be really high. A white gas stove will prove to be very economical in that case.

The upper limit on melt pot size is somewhere around four quarts, for practicality. I've tried to melt snow in a six quart pot before, and it takes forever. Plus, of course, a six quart pot makes such a huge lump in your pack. So, the whole key to it is to have a melt pot that is just the right size for your group.

We were climbing a high peak one time, and three of us were sharing one stove. I would wander around with my plastic bag, attempting to gather clean snow to melt. All I kept finding was slightly off-color snow with little petrified artifacts from previous campers.

--B.G.--

What Chad wrote is pretty good, but I will add a few comments.

1) It is very worth while spending some time digging for water, even if it is some way down. Or even carrying water for a little time.

2) It doesn't matter whether the snow is fresh or old: the energy required to melt the snow depends only on its (sub-zero) temperature. Expect to use about double your normal amount of fuel.

3) There is a myth about scorched pots. As far as I can tell, it's a myth. After all, some people fry stuff in their pots. Better not melt an aluminium pot of course! Does a very hot pot add any taste to the water? Not that I can detect.

4) Be very careful at the start, as the sub-zero pot bottom can create condensation from the flame, and this water can drip onto your stove with unfortunate results - even putting the flame out in extreme cases. (With the fuel still coming out ...) Having some liquid water in the bottom of the pot will minimise this risk.

5) I use a cup to get water out of the pot and pour it into my PET water bottle. I hold the bottle over the pot while pouring, so any spills just go back into the pot.

Bob's comments about minimising heat loss are also very much to the point.

Cheers

Edited by rcaffin on 12/08/2011 17:22:38 MST.

Not much to add here. I agree with most everything said. I may add that if you are in a forested area, you may consider a weight free fuel - wood. I carry a white gas stove with a windscreen that doubles as a wood burning hobo stove. This way I am covered - if the weather permits, I use wood, If not I use the gas stove. I use a tight fitting lid when using wood as I have tasted smoke water and it is not so good. Where I hike we have several feet of snow, this this creates a different problem. You will need a stove board, or fire pan (old cookie sheet) set on top of a couple of logs. To conserve fuel, I have adopted (copied) the method used below.

http://straightchuter.com/2009/05/expeditions-stove-set-up/


Enjoy,

Dave

We were climbing a high peak one time, and three of us were sharing one stove. I would wander around with my plastic bag, attempting to gather clean snow to melt. All I kept finding was slightly off-color snow with little petrified artifacts from previous campers.

Dave,

Now that's an interesting set up. Hard core cold weather set up!


HJ
Adventures in Stoving

Hi Jim,

The only mods I made was to replace the heat shield with a hobo and the stove board with a cookie sheet. I can pull the stove out the top with the fuel bottle attached and burn wood. (this protects the o-ring at -F temps)

enjoy,

Dave

P.S. I should mention that in the winter I pull a sled. This way I can leave the stove set up and ready to go. The hobo is riveted to the cookie sheet and provides protection for the stove in the sled.

Edited by dmgoody on 12/08/2011 19:47:23 MST.

"little petrified artifacts"

You know the raisins in the rice pudding? They weren't raisins.

--B.G.--

Can't stress how much a radiation/wind screen is for melting snow in winter. Makes difference between 6 minutes and 9 minutes unless in a tent of course. Super Heavy aluminum foil is your friend. Several layers works.

0) Note must insulate from Snow below as is shown in the diagram. Most novices forget this! and tippo oops there goes the show as the pot falls off. I use my snow shovel below.

1) Before all snow has melted, take off the stove and pour out. Melting ALL chunks will take another 1-2 minutes. It is not necessary to do so. Place said bottle close to you. Do not place back in snow and refreeze it.

2) DO NOT use ice chunks unless you are desperate. See #1. Less surface area and therefore takes longer to melt. Need "snow" with lots of surface area to allow quicker heat transfer.

3) As others have said a cup of water in the bottom will transfer more heat to a larger area of snow quicker. This will decrease melting times from 7/8 minutes to 6 or less for 2 quarts of water from a 3-4 quart pot.

What do you guys do about purification? I was taught to bring melted snow to a boil back in the day. I think the BPL article said to just melt and use chemical treatment to conserve fuel which I tried with aqua mira and liked. I have also heard folks say they just melt and drink without treating. Just wondering what others are doing.

Edited by gvolpe on 12/10/2011 09:17:21 MST.

I don't purify or boil my water from melting snow. I just melt the snow and drink.

deleted

Edited by rOg_w on 05/28/2012 17:00:32 MDT.

Roger said:
5) I use a cup to get water out of the pot and pour it into my PET water bottle. I hold the bottle over the pot while pouring, so any spills just go back into the pot.



Man that's it right there. I always hated picking up the pot to pout it into a bottle. you waste heat, disturb the windscreen, and can spill.

a cup! Duh! quick, and elegant.

and light! (assuming paper cup, of course)

I've got a GSI teapot that I'll probably use. The little spout will make pouring very nice.

Bob Gross wrote: > "little petrified artifacts"

You know the raisins in the rice pudding? They weren't raisins.

David Goodyear wrote: > Hi Jim,

The only mods I made was to replace the heat shield with a hobo and the stove board with a cookie sheet. I can pull the stove out the top with the fuel bottle attached and burn wood. (this protects the o-ring at -F temps)

enjoy,

Dave

P.S. I should mention that in the winter I pull a sled. This way I can leave the stove set up and ready to go. The hobo is riveted to the cookie sheet and provides protection for the stove in the sled.

Edited by hikin_jim on 12/10/2011 12:39:23 MST.

I've got a GSI teapot that I'll probably use. The little spout will make pouring very nice.

Hi JIm,

Sorry if I am hijacking this thread, but It sort of relates.

When in hobo mode, I remove the cozy and MSR heat exchanger. (fuel conservation is not a concern) I think they would get wrecked if left on.

Dave

Pics:

Set-up



without cozy



take off pot



Pull out stove with stove board





Insert stakes and wood (set it atop 2 logs on snow ) - fire it up

Edited by dmgoody on 12/10/2011 14:03:49 MST.

I use exactly the setup Hikin' Jim uses. Well, minus the MSR heat exchanger. Too heavy.

>MSR Dragonfly stove
>1.5 L. pot (& lid)
>MSR foil windscreen
>Outback Pantry fiberglass oven hood

This definitely saves fuel in a fuel-thirsty job.

But my CC Sidewinder TriTi Inferno wood stove works well too. (And the fuel is "light".)

Edited by Danepacker on 12/11/2011 15:46:28 MST.

Hi, Dave,

Ah. OK, now I get it. You're using a different windscreen, one where you can extract the "guts" out without disassembling everything. Looks pretty beefy. :)

Heck of a set up. You're smart to put it on a pulk/sled. Looks like a lot to carry on one's back!

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

Thanks Jim,

We pull sleds in the winter as we have no elevation to speak of. If I had to carry a stove set-up on my back I would downsize to a 2L pot and use the set-up from the straightshutter link. I might also throw in a titanium hex folding wood stove (vargo?). The heat exchanger only pays weight dividends if your trip is longer than 3 days. We consider weight and bombproof function (with mitts on when possible)when designing or purchasing gear for our sled trips. Of course - many people think we are a little "tetched in the head" to hike in the winter like we do.

Enjoy,

Dave

Thanks to everyone for posting some good info!

Although, the way the weather has been here, I don't know if I'll see any snow this year! We're supposed to hit the low 40s this week.

Edited by T.L. on 12/12/2011 08:05:54 MST.

Of course - many people think we are a little "tetched in the head" to hike in the winter like we do.

Well, just outside 'Vegas we have over 5 ft. of snow in the Spring Mountains above 7,000 ft. TIME TO WINTER CAMP!!!!

Ooooweee BABY!

So for a larger group, of say 8, would you still use a 4 quart pot and just keep adding snow to the pot or would you upsize to a 6 qt pot? FWIW I believe we'll be using a pulk.

I admit to using a 6 quart pot on one snow camping trip. However, I found it to be a little too large to be practical. For a group of 8, I think a 4 quart pot is more practical.

We did a 16-person snow camping trip one time, but we divided up into four cooking teams of 4. Each team had one MSR white gas stove, one 4 quart pot, and one 2 quart pot. The 4 quart pot was for melting, and the 2 quart was for cooking food.

--B.G.--

@Chad, point 3: It was said of my paternal grandmother that "she could burn water" hence my grandfather did all the cooking. So apparently, one can do that?

I'll echo the idea that if you're melting snow, you need to have some sort of HX whether an after-the-fact one like the MSR or some sort of flux-ring-capacitor built into the pot.

But I haven't seen the most important point: Don't melt yellow snow.

Edited by DavidinKenai on 12/12/2011 21:25:53 MST.

At some point, you'd come out ahead harvesting actual liquid water. You need to get through the ice* and then get the liquid water out of the stream/lake/pond. In my neighborhood or Northern WI/MI, 3-4 feet of ice might be prohibitive. But the mild California Sierra Nevada Mountains, you've got typically 6 to 18" of ice to deal with.

*I've used an axe in midwinter and I don't recommend it.

So you need a a drill bit of sorts and a classic brace and bit does a good job (I've done this). 1/2" is fine. Then you need a pump. The cheapest, lightest pump is an inertial pump which is tubing with a check valve on one end. Sold in auto parts stores and J.C. Whitney for siphoning gasoline. $8 or so.

David,

If 18"/45cm of ice represents a "mild" winter to you, you'll have to pardon me if I don't visit you this winter. Yipes!

Drilling through 18" of ice doesn't sound like much fun. How long does something like that take? I almost wonder if the weight of the fuel to just melt snow would be lighter than carrying a drill and a pump, but I guess that depends on how long you'll be out for.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

Tips here on a Finnish forum:
http://www.vaellusnet.com/turinat/viewtopic.php?t=6375&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
You can use the Google translator for some fun.


If not intersted in the translation challenge, here's the first post in easier english:

Now as the lakes are getting thicker ice cover, reaching the water gets ever more challenging. There's no need to carry an auger. Small axe is sufficient, if you carry a suitable length of a threaded steel bar.

First chop a small bowl on the ice, then use the axe to drive the bar through the bottom of the bowl. Soon you'll have a spring filling the bowl.


later in the discussion:

- 8mm diameter bar is working
- use nut, leash etc or you'll need a new bar for every lake
- if the bar gets stuck, use the threads: twist


editor's notes:

You are supposed to carry an axe anyway, so the steel bar is the only extra weight.

Edited by akuusist on 12/19/2011 02:41:39 MST.

Pounding a hole/bowl through the ice is a great solution if you plan your route to include these. If we are near a lake and the ice is shallow, we just use our bowie knives and chop a hole big enough for a dipping cup. Not sure if the thickness of the ice would be a factor in the threaded rod idea, plus how fast would the small drill hole close up in frigid temps. You will still need a method of disinfection or to boil the water. Not sure of the weight savings if you carry a steel rod and ice axe, plus the extra limitations on the route and energy needed for another camp chore. Even though I hike heavy as compared to many on this site, every gram must justify itself for me to carry it. The fact that it gets dark a 5pm and you need to set-up your shelter, gather wood, water, eat, bullshist with your friends and sleep - I'm not sure I want another chore.

Of course, it is all what you are use to, where I hike - we don't know what an ice axe looks like - now a hatchet - yes.


Enjoy,

Dave

Yeah, as someone who does a decent amount of winter backpack I'd rather carry the extra 5-6 oz. of fuel a day to melt water rather than 8-12 pounds of ax and prybar to hack through the ice. ;)

If you're camping on snowpack for just one night, the pee process for men is much shorter:

1. unzip everything so that you're mostly exposed
2. roll over so you're hardware is above the snow, not the groundsheet
3. pee
4. reverse steps 2 & 1
5. go back to sleep

It helps to remember that you peed when you wake up, that way you can avoid stepping/kneeling in the yellow snow.

Way simpler solution to peeing James.

1. Use pee bottle (.5 ounce weight).

Done.

*1. unzip everything so that you're mostly exposed* - really?

i guess it depends how cold it is, but in the middle of the night i am reluctant to unzip everything and lose all that hard earned heat that i've trapped in my sleeping bag. i'll stick with a soft nalgene pee-bottle.

Jim: I do it mostly to collect surface water samples for environmental monitoring so there isn't an option - the point is to get the stream water.

But a brace, bit and extension weigh a finite amount. 3 pounds maybe. There could be some 1 pound option, woodworking tools are way overbuilt for this application. At some point, trip length x group size would cause fuel consumption to exceed that. Obviously the cross-over for a 3-pound device is at 3 liters of fuel saved, so maybe at 30 people-days?

Does it take long? Not at all. A good bit goes through wood easily. Brace and 1" bit through a foot of ice? 30 seconds. Ice isn't near as strong as wood when near 30F (and there is liquid water underneath). -20F ice is MUCH stronger and tougher, but the bottom of my fun meter is -15F and with our young kids, I aim for temps >0F for camping trips. Ice fishermen bring a hand auguer with a 6" or 8" diameter bit (4 pounds?, 5-10 minutes) or power a power auger (20-30 pounds, one minute or less). You could lower your water bottles and pots directly through that hole. And catch some dinner!

A forum for people who care about this much more I do: (I catch more fish in the summer with a 5' diameter net than any icefisherman ever does through a 6" hole).

http://fishfinance.hubpages.com/hub/Best-Ice-Augers

David I have to ask: Have you ever been winter backpacking and used your 'setup' for getting water?

If so what distances where you hiking each day, and how long where you out for?

Ice axes work of course to get at frozen over lakes. Something you might need to carry
anyway.

If you also have a long ice screw and a platy hose you can get to water through thin ice
for a quick, if unfiltered, drink.

Perhaps some more brainstorming?

I meant that the plumbing is mostly exposed. Temporary coldness, much less than getting out of your shelter, and it requires no gear.

If you have a lake or stream that is mostly frozen and you need to get water, a good way is to use your trekking pole, ski pole, or tree limb. You don't want to get too close to the ice, because if you fall in it can be life-threatening. Instead, use your pole with some strong wire tied at the pointy end, and tie that to your water bottle at the neck. Tie it securely, because if it drops off, you are in worse trouble. Anyway, you can lower the water bottle into the water and retrieve it until your entire reservoir is full. That uses much less energy than trying to melt snow.

--B.G.--

Chad: After trying to get through lake ice with a full-sized axe (part of the USFS shelter equipment), I brought in the drill and siphon tube with check valve on the next trip.

It worked well and quickly. It wasn't UL to speak of but it gave us as much liquid water as we wanted. So clean pots or a hair wash wasn't a big deal. Also, we get a lot of wind-blown volcanic ash up here (not so often from new eruptions, but from it being continually redeposited on to the snow). So the snowpack is usually interbedded with gritty ash layers. The lake water has no turbidity, having been clarifying, under the ice, for the last 5 months.

Family trip, on skiis with sled, 3.5 miles in, 3 days with grade schoolers. If doing it to save fuel weight, it would have to be more people or more nights. Or a lighter drill. I like the ice screw idea a lot.

David,

I'm guessing auger but ... what type of 1" bit do you use?

Also, what sort of a setup for lifting the water from lake to bottle?

I hate cold. But for some reason each winter I subject myself to BPing the snow. Maybe I need to see a shrink.

Now I own and know what snowshoes, crampons, and ice axes are. However, a lot of the conversation has me confused as to what you folks are doing out there to obtain water.

But correct me if I am wrong. You are saying I can screw for water in isolated cold areas?

Where do I sign up, and is it legal?

Jim:

Yep, an auger bit is heavier but clears chips really quick.

For compactness, I'd imagine this would be best:

it has a check valve at the bottom and you jerk it back and forth to pump.

For surface water sampling, I've used something like this:

which would have a higher throughput and would work down an ice-screw0sized hole.

One of the water filters that uses a pump and hose should work.

I been thinking about buying a Nils 4" ice auger. I don't catch any big fish anyway. The web site says 3 lbs which doesn't seem too bad.



http://www.fishusa.com/Nils-USA-Hand-Augers_p.html

quoting myself:

Now as the lakes are getting thicker ice cover, reaching the water gets ever more challenging. There's no need to carry an auger. Small axe is sufficient, if you carry a suitable length of a threaded steel bar.
First chop a small bowl on the ice, then use the axe to drive the bar through the bottom of the bowl. Soon you'll have a spring filling the bowl.
...
- 8mm diameter bar is working

Wow. In just five lines, I was able to create six points of confusion, quoted and answered below. Maybe I can blame the cultural differences. Lines were anyway a direct translation of a text written by another person for different audience.


extra limitations on the route ... Pounding a hole/bowl through the ice is a great solution if you plan your route to include these (lakes).
http://tinyurl.com/the-trouble-of-finding-lakes

Not sure if the thickness of the ice would be a factor in the threaded rod idea.
http://tinyurl.com/the-ice-thickess-is-a-factor

You will still need a method of disinfection or to boil the water.
I didn't remember water needs to be disinfected in your part of the world :)

Of course, it is all what you are use to, where I hike - we don't know what an ice axe looks like - now a hatchet - yes.
Me too! I didn't remember there's a thing called ice axe so I used a very generic term 'axe' when I should have written 'hatchet'.

I'd rather carry the extra 5-6 oz. of fuel a day to melt water rather than 8-12 pounds of ax and prybar to hack through the ice. ;)
Oh yeah, in some places you carry fuel instead of collecting it. Here hatchet is supposed to be carried anyway, for making a campfire.
+ I think metric and it's obvious to me 8mm rod is not that heavy stuff. Suitable length ~two feet~ of it weighs 6 oz. (Needed a calculator, just haven't learned to think in imperial/US units)

energy needed for another camp chore. (making hole in the ice)
Well, I think melting snow is a time taxing chore, even if fuel is abundant.


Two more, not directly related to responses to my post:

If you have a lake or stream that is mostly frozen and you need to get water, a good way is to use your trekking pole, ski pole, or tree limb...
Excellent piece of advice, but when you wrote "mostly frozen" I thought mostly frozen in vertical direction, and then, what on earth is he going to do with a ski pole or tree limb? Yeah, I got it one line later.



Finally: how about taste?
Don't you think stream water tastes better than snow melted in a pot? Is it different in US? Or should we wash our pots more often in Finland?

Edited by akuusist on 12/19/2011 03:37:55 MST.

"Don't you think stream water tastes better than snow melted in a pot?"

I wonder why that is?

Melted snow water has an odd taste. Stream water is much better.

If I am spending the night I will have a snow shovel. I just remove the handle and place the stove on it.

As most of these responses deal with getting water rather than melting it, I will add this image from a few years ago. We would much rather find moving water than use snow



We just finished another two night stay at a local cabin and found water down a 5 foot snow bank among the hemlocks and spruce. No image from that but this is the country

Here's the scenario: Lakes and streams are frozen and there is little to no snow to melt. What to do?

So, is there any consensus or opinions on whether or not it'd be better to use a hatchet to chip and melt ice chunks from a frozen lake, or drill for liquid water with a brace and auger bit?

Odd situation, but ... how about a large rock from a good height?

Cheers

I can't remember a time where I haven't been able to find an open spot (or at least thin ice) in a stream to get water. Even a lot of the lakes have open water and/or thin ice near an inlet or outlet. And without snow, they are even easier to find. The currents always seem to erode away at the ice to keep the water accessible. I remember the days of snowmobiling or even cross country skiing in -20F weather and still needing to avoid certain areas of lakes and rivers due to open water or thin ice.

My experience is that except for really thin ice, a drill is MUCH faster through ice than an axe. And for really thin ice, or really, any setting, if you can find a rock, you can make ice chips.

Glacier ice tends to be rather hard and almost impossible to chop up without a serious tool.

--B.G.--

"I wonder why that is?

Melted snow water has an odd taste. Stream water is much better."

One factor is air. Melted snow water isn't aerated, but stream water is. Craig Connally recommends shaking air into melted or boiled water to get rid of the flat taste of non-aerated water for that very reason.

Another factor is that most streambeds have minerals that leach into the water, which are usually things like calcium, that add a pleasing flavor to the water. Snow doesn't have any of that in it.

Edit: fixed typo

Edited by Tamerlin on 12/26/2011 13:27:13 MST.