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Layering for 5 degrees F
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christopher smead
(hamsterfish) - MLife

Locale: hamsterfish
Layering for 5 degrees F on 12/08/2011 00:45:32 MST Print View

So I just found out that my next trip may have temps as low as 5 degrees.

Here's my layering setup so far:

Top:
Arcteryx Phase SV base layer
Patagonia R 1 hoody
Melanzana grid zip top
Montbell ex down light jacket
Montbell down inner Parka
Arcteryx alpha SL paclite shell

Bottom:
Arcteryx Phase SV base
Capilene 4 base
Rei Taku softshell pants

I'm sure this needs some changes so please feel free to comment.

Ismail Faruqi
(ismailfaruqi) - F
Re: Layering for 5 degrees F on 12/08/2011 07:59:43 MST Print View

are you sure you need 3 layers of top baselayer :)

christopher smead
(hamsterfish) - MLife

Locale: hamsterfish
Yeah you're right on 12/08/2011 10:27:26 MST Print View

I'm thinking of ditching the melanzana grid fleece and montbell ex light (combined weight of 13 oz) in favor of some 10 or 11 oz Thermalpro fleece if such a thing exists. Any suggestions?

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
more info on 12/08/2011 11:09:45 MST Print View

Details Chris?

Where? When? What?

Also, list your headwear, footwear, and handwear with your list as this is part of a winter layering system as well.

christopher smead
(hamsterfish) - MLife

Locale: hamsterfish
Thanks Eugene on 12/08/2011 16:05:37 MST Print View

I'm actually still trying to figure out the gloves/socks situation. I was looking at these: http://www.rei.com/product/819157/outdoor-research-versaliner-gloves
But I'm not sure they will be warm enough.

As for socks, I have some smartwool liners, and some medium smartwool socks, but I'm thinking upgrade to thicker socks..

Again I'm open to suggestion.
Thanks!

christopher smead
(hamsterfish) - MLife

Locale: hamsterfish
Oh on 12/08/2011 16:07:51 MST Print View

Forgot to mention where I'm going. I'm hiking to the top of Yosemite falls Friday the 16th and will spend 2 cold nights. Here's the weather forecast: http://www.weather.com/weather/tenday/Yosemite+National+Park+CA+CANPYOSE:13

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Oh on 12/08/2011 16:23:02 MST Print View

You might want to think about footwear.

I assume that you intend to hike up the Yosemite Falls Trail from the valley. There probably won't be much snow at the bottom. However, as you get closer to the top, there are dripping cliffs that overhang the trail, so there might be some really icy patches. You can tell how bad it will be when you are still at the start. Look up at the big ice pile that forms underneath the main drop of Yosemite Falls. If the pile is big, then expect major icy patches. Sometimes the pile doesn't get big until mid-winter.

--B.G.--

christopher smead
(hamsterfish) - MLife

Locale: hamsterfish
Think I'll need crampons? on 12/08/2011 19:52:54 MST Print View

I was going to just wear wool liners, wool socks, and then my merrel Moab goretex mid boots. Think that's enough? Crampons? Snow shoes?

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Think I'll need crampons? on 12/08/2011 20:07:14 MST Print View

It depends on what the weather is like for the 2-3 days before you start.

Snowshoes would be good if the snow depth is over a foot or so. However, that is a south-facing trail, and the snow doesn't get deep there very often. You should be able to look up from the valley to see what the snow looks like up on the rim. Then you can make a last-minute decision on what to take.

Take gaiters. Even if the snow is only up to the tops of the boots, you will step into something. The gaiters will keep your feet warmer and drier.

--B.G.--

Ismail Faruqi
(ismailfaruqi) - F
glove on 12/09/2011 04:37:52 MST Print View

versaliner glove will be too thin for 5F i think. I have OR PL100 which has roughly same insulation as versaliner and found it too cold at 30F already.

For top, how about this:
active movement: Phase SV -> R1 hoody -> Alpha SL
rest / belaying: Phase SV -> R1 hoody -> Alpha SL -> EX Light -> UL Inner Down Jacket

Honestly i don't think the down jackets combination will be up to task for 5F... both combined only has 4.3oz of down... meanwhile I has a brooks range hoody with 6.5oz of down and it only rated to 15F by the manufacturer. Perhaps you should beef up the insulation layer...

christopher smead
(hamsterfish) - MLife

Locale: hamsterfish
Yes good advice on 12/09/2011 10:57:05 MST Print View

So thankful for this advice!
Ok here's my latest revision:

Top:
phase sv
r1 hoody
Mountain HW monkey man
MB down inner parka
alpha sl

Bottom:
Phase SV
Rei fleece pants
Rei taku pants

Hat: serius fleecehat with ear flaps and face cover
Gloves: tbd looking for suggestions
Socks: smart wool liners, and smart wool heavyweight socks.

Shoes: merrel moab mid gtx

Debating pending weather report: crampons/snowshoes

Paul Hope
(PaulHope) - F
Re: Layering for 5 degrees F on 12/10/2011 09:23:59 MST Print View

Active at +5F:

Top
----
- Phase SV
- R1 hoody

When you get to camp and it is 5deg, I would throw on my Montbell Parka and Alpha SL. I would leave the ex down light at home, but I may consider bringing the Melanzana for additional warmth as the Parka really isn't warm enough for such cold temps-- at least it wouldn't be for me.

Bottom
------
Not familiar with the Phase base, but I find that Capilene 3 under my softshell pants are fine while hiking and in camp, if I need something additional then out come the down pants. I would also consider some down boots for in camp and for sleeping if you tend to get come extremities.

Hands
-----
My combo is the OR PL 400 combined with the BD Mercury. For milder temps I would go with a thiner liner glove, but the Mercury Mitts come with me on all cold weather outings.

christopher smead
(hamsterfish) - MLife

Locale: hamsterfish
Update again on 12/11/2011 01:04:44 MST Print View

After contemplating how scary frost bit could be, I ended up getting the REI switchback gloves. http://m.rei.com/mt/www.rei.com/product/825261/rei-switchback-gloves

Im guessing I added about 5 or 6 lbs in clothing, gloves, socks, additional evazote sleeping pad, and extra fuel. I'm finding that ultralight winter backpacking is not so light in my case. Is that just the reality or am I doing something wrong?

For 3 seasons, I can usually pull off about 31lbs for a week with food and water.

Haven't weighed it yet, but I'm guessing I'm now at 36 or 37lbs for only 2 nights!

Dustin Short
(upalachango) - MLife
5F at Night, high 30s in the Day... on 12/11/2011 03:01:19 MST Print View

I think you're moving into paranoia range that comes with lack of experience, which isn't a bad thing in the beginning ;)

I am curious as to your planning. The weather forecast you linked has a low of 5F, that will be during the middle of the night when you should be in some form of shelter and a warm sleeping bag. During the day you're looking at temps considerably warmer.

If you're active, you should be able to get away with the MB Parka. I live in AZ and lately it's been getting cold at night and just sitting around my MB Parka, a thin SS merino shirt and a light softshell over it all is plenty warm, too warm if I start moving. So for your temps and with activity I'd say you should be more than ok during the day.

At night is where you're going to really face the most miserable conditions. Fatty dinner for slow burn calories, hot water bottle, and quality sleeping pad mixed with all your day insulation and an appropriate bag should get you through no problem though.

christopher smead
(hamsterfish) - MLife

Locale: hamsterfish
Post trip update on 12/25/2011 02:26:58 MST Print View

So we had a blast. Yosemite is even more beautiful when it's frozen and there's no mosquitos or crowds.

Here's what I went in with:

Top:
phase sv
r1 hoody
Mountain HW monkey man
MB down inner parka
alpha sl

Bottom:
Phase SV
Rei fleece pants
Rei taku pants

Hat: serius fleecehat with ear flaps and face cover
Gloves: rei fleece gloves and insulated e1 shells
Socks: smart wool liners, and smart wool heavyweight socks.

Shoes: merrel moab mid gtx

Pad: 3/8 Evazote plus neo air.

The temps dropped into the single digits for sure. It was not easy keeping our water liquid, batteries working, and even our Chapstick was like a rock. I put my partially frozen water bladder in my WM versalite bag with me all night, and it was still frozen in the morning!!! And yes I loved every minute of it.

Next time I would definitely beef up my top layers. Perhaps the MB alpine down parka instead of the down inner. Feet and hands were warm, but crampons would have saved us from a few spills on the ice. And the neo air and 3/8 evazote combination was not enough. Definitely going to take a closer look at the exped 7 and the new 4 season neo air.

Edited by hamsterfish on 12/25/2011 02:29:53 MST.

David Adair
(DavidAdair) - M

Locale: West Dakota
Re: Post trip update on 12/25/2011 11:23:28 MST Print View

Its good to hear you had an enjoyable trip! Thanks for the feedback on your gear. Now throw the rest of us a bone a post couple quick pictures!

christopher smead
(hamsterfish) - MLife

Locale: hamsterfish
Sure thing on 12/26/2011 00:11:12 MST Print View

Here ya go. Hope you all had a great Christmas! https://plus.google.com/photos/108234957944494814191/albums/5687952726484581649?banner=pwa

David Adair
(DavidAdair) - M

Locale: West Dakota
Trip photos! on 12/26/2011 23:35:30 MST Print View

I watched some of those videos four times.LOL Great! Been stuck inside for way too long- so much appreciated. Hope you all had a nice Christmas as well.