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Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Sleeping, Insulation & Shelter for Winter on 12/06/2011 12:12:15 MST Print View

Hi folks,

I see plenty of kit lists here for 3 Season use but not much for Winter use.
Just wondering what folk are packing for Winter use (Sleeping, Insulation & Shelter) and what expected temperatures you would be happy with the choices and if you use clothing to supplement your bag or quilt.

Cheers,

Stephen

p.s. and what do they weigh :-)

Edited by stephenm on 12/06/2011 12:18:59 MST.

Paul Hope
(PaulHope) - F
Re: Sleeping, Insulation & Shelter for Winter on 12/06/2011 15:14:11 MST Print View

Location: Colorado Rockies
Temps: Zero to -20F (Expected), Comfortable down to at least -30degF
Elevation: 11K and upwards
Trips: Climbing/Alpine

Shelter:
-Black Diamond Eldorado for solo use (5lbs)
-WIld Country Quasar when I need the additional space for two people (9lbs-- but it is 10 years old!)

Sleeping:
- WM Kodiak GWS Long 6'6 (3lb 5oz) (milder winter conditions)
- FF Peregrine Long (4lb 3oz) (Extremes)
- Exped 7 sleeping pad (2lbs)

Insulation:
- R1 Hoody
- FA Downlight Sweater
- FA Mountain Guide Hooded Jacket
- Cap 3 pants.
- FF Volant Pants

That is the basis of my winter system.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Thanks Paul on 12/07/2011 03:21:20 MST Print View

Hi Paul,

Thats quiet an impressive system.you have.

Cheers,

Stephen

Andy F
(AndyF) - M

Locale: Midwest/Midatlantic
Re: Sleeping, Insulation & Shelter for Winter on 12/07/2011 08:53:28 MST Print View

I'll probably post a full winter list for review here soon. I'm also working on a -40 list, but it's not likely that I'll need that this year.

Temps: estimated down to -10 F


Shelter:
Scarp 2 (2 lbs 12 oz, fly/pole only, no inner, stakes, or crossing poles)
Groundsheet: window film to cover entire floor area (3.9 oz)
I'm planning to use Nite-ize figure 9 biners to attach snow anchors (sticks/trekking poles) because I don't like fiddling with knots in the cold

Sleeping:
vapor barrier liner (emergency bivy), maybe VB clothing (4-12 oz)
Marmot Never Summer 0F bag (600 fp down, 3 lbs 14 oz)
Eped Downmat 7 (full length, 32 oz)

Top layers:
poly short sleeve t-shirt
fleece pullover (like R1)
(bring R3-like fleece vest or lambswool sweater here if necessary while hiking)
fleece jacket (like R3)
(bring cheap poly windshirt if high winds as a second wind layer)
(cotton canvas anorak shell if dry cold)
(eVENT shell if wet cold)
cheap down jacket (24 oz, maybe 1-1.5 inches of loft)
(maybe bring synthetic parka (35 oz))
I plan to use fire or sleeping bag for additional warmth while sitting around camp.

Bottom layers:
poly/merino medium-weight
(add poly fleece expedition weight if really cold)
Marmot Scree softshell pants
heavy GoreTex rainpants if needed for wet cold or wind shell
(considering synthetic pants for around camp)

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: Re: Sleeping, Insulation & Shelter for Winter on 12/07/2011 09:55:17 MST Print View

Hi Andy,

I have a Scarp 1 myself, I used it a few weeks ago in unexpected 50mph winds (gusting 70+) in an exposed pitch with Cross poles and about 12 guylines.

It did suffer a small rip on the top of the pole sleeve, this was caused by a blow down while pitching.

I was well impressed with the Scarp but would of prefered having a stronger tent with me.

Cheers,

Stephen

P.s. My centre pole did bend a bit.

Edited by stephenm on 12/07/2011 10:11:14 MST.

Andy F
(AndyF) - M

Locale: Midwest/Midatlantic
Scarp in wind on 12/07/2011 10:44:44 MST Print View

Hi Stephen,

Sorry to hear about your Scarp. I've pitched mine in around 40 mph winds, but I plan to go where the winds could be 50mph or more, so that's helpful information to know. It sounds like a 70 mph+ gust took it down in the middle of pitching then?

What stronger tents are you thinking of? Hilleberg?

Andy

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: Scarp in wind on 12/07/2011 11:08:04 MST Print View

Hi Andy,

I was pitching the fly by itself and I had 6 in pegs and was just threading the cross poles and a gust turned it in to a kite.

When I got it back I used two Msr Blizzard on the windward side to to keep in place while pitching, my buddies Scarp got taken thrashed so we uses his guys and pegs to nail the Scarp to the ground.

I was on to Henry S and he is sending on spares.

I will still use the Scarp for 3 season use but I will probaly buy a Hillie Soulo or Unna when I move to the Us (from Ireland and living Belgium).

Cheers

Edited by stephenm on 12/07/2011 11:09:01 MST.

Jonathon Smith
(jsmith)
Sleeping, Insulation & Shelter for Winter on 12/09/2011 19:18:18 MST Print View

Here's my current winter setup:

Shelter
Hilleberg Soulo - 4lb 12oz

Sleeping
Katabatic Gear Blackwelder 6'-6" - 37oz
NeoAir Allseason large - 26oz
1/4" foam pad large - 4oz

Insulation
wool base layer
VBL 'Thermal Protective Suit' - 7oz
R1 - 12oz
FF Icefall Parka - 36oz
FF Volant Pants - 17oz
FF Down Booties - 10oz
Rab Down Mitts - 7oz

This is my first year of winter camping so I've put more emphasis on safety and comfort until I get more experience. It hasn't been cold enough to test everything yet but I hope this will keep me comfortable at -25C (-13F) and safe at -35C (-31F).

Paul Hope
(PaulHope) - F
Re: Re: Scarp in wind on 12/10/2011 22:06:42 MST Print View

This is just what I expected. I commented on an earlier topic about 4-season tents and I remarked how many of these shelters are nothing more than 3+ season tents that are more suited to winter use when the the tent is pitched in a well shelter location as opposed to at the top of a ridge, engaging strong winds and heavy snow loads.

I even mentioned the Scarp model in my statement. It always struck me that this tent was billed as 4-season/all-season, it really is not. I don't own one, but based on the design alone I wouldn't take it out in real winter conditions unless I expected a sheltered area to pitch it in; then again in a well sheltered area even a regular 3-season tent would suffice when being shielded from the wind and the snow.

IMHO, Tarptents etc have a long way to go for *true* 4-season use.

FWIW, my ideal solo, 4-season shelter is this:

-Big enough for two *real* people-- palace for one but can fit two in a pinch.
-Two doors for A) Separate entry & B) Choice of entering from the none-wind side
-Freestanding

I don't plan to change my Eldorado for solo use for a very long time, but eventually I will upgrade my Quasar when it finally dies or I hand it down (whichever comes first) and my first choice would go to the BD Tempest-- as much as I like the weight of the Hilleberg models, their 2-person designs just don't have what I look for-- namely freestanding/2door/ designs.

I guess what I am saying when it comes to 4-season shelters is to set forth certain specification that are important to you.

Franco Darioli
(Franco) - M

Locale: Melbourne
Sleeping, Insulation & Shelter for Winter on 12/10/2011 22:44:58 MST Print View

Paul
Just curios ...
Why did you dismiss the Hilleberg Allak ?
Franco

Have a look at this video clip for "wind happens" at around the 1 minute mark .
http://vimeo.com/32614785
(great clip BTW..)

Edited by Franco on 12/11/2011 16:28:32 MST.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
"Sleeping, Insulation & Shelter for Winter" on 12/11/2011 07:35:26 MST Print View

Hi Jonathan,

I hike and Wild camp mainly in Ireland and the UK so I never really encounter anything below -10C. I have sno holed in -15 but it was much warmer than that in the snow hole.


I am moving to Michigan shortly so I am fine tuning my Cold weather kit. I have a -33 PHD down bag, Volant trouers and a Crux Lava Down Parka which are both shelled in Event.

I dont have any VBL clothing but I reckong the longest I will spend out in Winter will be two nights so I can probaly get away without them.

I have an Exped Down Mat 9 which is a bit of a porker so I am going to test out using my Exped Synmat UL with a Ridgerest solar, I do like to carry a good foam pad in Winter.


Hi Paul,

I also agree that the Scarp is not a dedicated Winter tent but it is very good 3+ Season tent.

On the night in question my buddy and I where able to comforatbley sleep under the fly sheet of the Scarp 1. Once pitched the tent really did handle it self very well.

I have made a few mods to the Cross Pole attachments that allow it to pitch easier but I will be purchasing dedciated Winter tent in the next 6 weeks.

I have owned a Crux X2 Storm (4 pole geo) which was too heavy for 1 person to carry and too small for two people and a Lightwave G1 Ultra (3 pole semi geo) but it was just a bit too short for winter.

Cheers,

Stephen


, when it was used in those condition and that why I am going to purchase

Paul Hope
(PaulHope) - F
Re: Sleeping, Insulation & Shelter for Winter on 12/11/2011 10:18:40 MST Print View

Franco,

I haven't dismissed the Allak; it is still on my shortlist.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Sleeping, Insulation & Shelter for Winter on 12/11/2011 19:36:36 MST Print View

Paul, you said:

"as much as I like the weight of the Hilleberg models, their 2-person designs just don't have what I look for-- namely freestanding/2door/ designs."

And then in your next post indicate that, "I haven't dismissed the Allak; it is still on my shortlist."

The Hilleberg Allak is a 2 person, freestanding, 2 door design. Come to think of it, so is their Staika and Tarra.

Paul Hope
(PaulHope) - F
Re: Re: Re: Sleeping, Insulation & Shelter for Winter on 12/11/2011 22:27:19 MST Print View

David,

The problem I have with the Allak and Stakia is that I don't like the door placement-- I prefer them to be more like the Tempest or Terra.

However, between the Tempest and the Terra the latter costs $335 more and also weighs in at 9lbs-- which is just what my 10 year Quasar weighs!

So yes, the top of my list is the Tempest, followed by the Allak-- and between those two there is still a significant cost difference ($200+) and not enough of weight difference to off-set it.

Chad Miller
(chadnsc)

Locale: Duluth, Minnesota
Re: Sleeping, Insulation & Shelter for Winter on 12/12/2011 10:06:15 MST Print View

Temperature range: down to -20 F
Location: Northern MN

Pad: DownMat 7
Bag: Montbell UL SS Down Hugger 0
Shelter: MDL Duo Mid pyramid tarp

I'll add my down parka, pants, and booties to push my system to it's lower temperature ranges. If I have snow then I'll build a quinzie and I can sleep with this system down to -40 F.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: Re: Sleeping, Insulation & Shelter for Winter on 12/13/2011 02:34:58 MST Print View

Hi Chad,

How does the Duomid handle heavy snow fall and strong winds.

Cheers,

Stephen

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
ADK Winter Kit List on 09/22/2012 14:59:57 MDT Print View

I signed up to the Adirondacks Mountaineering Clubs week long winter school in February which has a night wild camp segment, I would be interested to hear kit folks use in the area.

Cheers,