I have a question about glove systems. I am doing a lot of backcountry skiing and I currently carry a pair of light gloves for the climb up, a pair of heavier gloves for the descent and a pair of mittens for warmth/security. I was wondering if there is a better/lighter system. There just seems to be a lot of redundancy in that system.

What I was considering is using a very thin wind-proof liner (like the manzella N2S silkweight windproof gloves) layered under a softshell glove. Then there would be a two-piece WPB mitten shell that goes on top of that (something like the outdoor research alti mitt, where both the shell and inner mitten have insulation).

So I could climb up in liner + soft-shell glove, ski down with liner+soft-shell glove+mitten shell, and still have the inner mitten for additional warmth.

Basically I want a system I can use comfortably from 30 degrees down to -15 degrees or so. It just seems like what I use now is a lot heavier than it needs to be.

My partner has the same question -- what is a good hand system when the PossumDown's are out of stock? She gets cold hands, even wearing expensive so-called insulated mittens. Me, I just grin and bear it ... but when her hands are cold ... it is better to turn back before the avalanche. bd

These liners are amazing. I use them as a four season item as my hands never really get that cold. When I climb up in the White Mountains of New Hampshire in cold temps I use the Manzella's for the approach and layer an Ibex Climawool (primaloft softshell glove) over that. For extreme cold I have a Mountian Hardwear Zero mitt. If I am doing any extended mountaineering trips or plan on traveling above treeline for extended period, I will switch the Ibex glove with either a Marmot Randonee or Marmat Work glove demending on the activity and how cold it is outside. I am also a big fan of Wristies (www.wristies.com) in extreme cold. They do a great job sealing out the cold and are great for extending the range of the Manzella liners.

I second Jonathan's choice, the Ibex is a really nice glove
as is the Marmot work glove. Oddly I wear a large in the Ibex and an xl in the Marmot. [watch those sizing charts] The Mountain Hardwear Epic glove makes a nice backcountry ski glove if the temp isn't too extreme, at 39.00 it's a nice price point also.

Does anyone here just use liner gloves down low and the insulated overmitts above treeline. I was thinking that with the combo of just a wool or possumdown glove under the manzella N2S liner would be fine down to around zero. When it gets colder, just put on the big mitts. Granted you lose some dexterity, but with the liners underneath it would be easy to take them off and manipulate whatever you need.

I'm a B-C skier, not a mountaineer. But I have used Gore-Tex gauntlet gloves with various thicklnesses of removable liners.

Right now I'm on my 3rd pair of shells & liners so I have several sets of liners left over from other gloves. I always take one thin pair of liners, one medium pair and one thick pile pair. PLUS...I always carry thin poly knit inner liners that I usually wear all the time under the insulating liners.

If I feel the weather could get to 10F or below I bring my O R Gore-Tex mitten shells to go over my heavy glove liners.
And if I know the temps will be way below zero F at times I carry the mitten liners themselves in addition to gloves.
These are EMS brand DOUBLE layer fleece liners that are good for at least -40F.

I know this because, as a Nordic Patroller at the '79 Pre-Olympics at Lake Placid, NY it was -40F the last day of competition. Back then I had gauntlet leather/nylon snowmobile mitten shells with Austrian Dachstein boiled wool mitten liners and us Army wool glove liners. I had to take off the Army glove liners B/C my hands were TOO HOT at -40F! So, being that the double pile mitt liners are much thicker than the wool Dachstein liners I feel they will certainly do the job. Anyway, at -40F I would only venture outside a tent for short periods of a few hours unless it was an emergency.

Edited by Danepacker on 01/21/2007 23:57:09 MST.

Christopher, you mention that this is for skiing, so you will be active most of the time I imagine. Let me mention what works for me; I have a box of inexpensive glove layers I have collected on sale/clearance, and I choose the lightest combo for the expected conditions. Only you know your physiology, but try combining layers such as this to arrive at the minimum requirement.. Here are the items which worked well for me..

In order of warmth IMO:
Base:
- Cabela's silk liners (white for sun protection on hot days)
- Silkweight merino liners (not durable, one or two days use unless covered)
- Knit polyester liners (durable and cheap)

Insulation:
- Fleece 100 (haven't found anything to beat it as a mid layer)

Shell:
- REI wind shell gloves
- REI 'One' gloves
- MontBell 'DryTech' long-armed ski gloves in XL to fit over several layers
- SealSkinz (soaked up water like a sponge..returned to store)

Wanted:
Goretex shells
Goretex lobster mits

There are quite a few combinations possible.. but I still have not found a goretex, uninsulated shell glove, after months of searching. Cabela's so-called 'uninsulated' gloves, for example, were actually 1/2" thick..
So if you find a waterproof shell, please add that into this thread?

For a plain waterproof shell, try the OR latitude mitts: they're a goretex paclite shell, seam-sealed, with absolutely no insulation. The palms are grippy enough that I'm surprised how much dexterity I have with the shells on. The liner glove they come with is a little weird and not so useful, but of course you can replace it.

Edited by davidn on 04/23/2007 00:35:43 MDT.

For moving in weather down to 20 F I use Rossingol and Hotfingers XC gloves that have a light knit Trico lining W/some light foam in the back of the glove. They are just barely large enough to accomodate a thin synthetic liner.

This works fine as long as they don't get wet. I've treated the gloves' leather surfaces with NikWax shoe wax to help keep out moisture and it works very well, especially on the palms. Use a hair dryer set on MED to help the NikWax penetrate the leather.

Eric

Edited by Danepacker on 09/30/2007 15:23:33 MDT.

I am also still searching for a good system.

I have used various weights of merino wool glove/mitten liners inside glove or mitten shells. The liners are no-brainers as I can double up with a glove liner covered by a mitten liner. My problem is finding a TRULY WATERPROOF shell. Every one that I have tried, leaks water through the seams. Naturally, this is leading my toward mitten shells that have less seams.

I noted a previous post that recommended OR Latitude mitts as being seam sealed. Anyone else with experience with this product or other mitten shells that you are convinced are rock solid waterproof?

What about MLD Event shell (now with a gore-tex palm for durability) or ULA Mist shell? I'm thinking these lightweight shells would also be good alone for rainy spring or fall hikes.

Since they are new, I don't expect anyone with experience with these, just a note of interest, but I just saw an advertisement for a new series of gloves from Komperdell that they claim are the first seam sealed waterproof gloves.

http://www.komperdell.com/en/handschuhe/index.htm

Edited by mad777 on 09/23/2007 11:37:47 MDT.

I haven't used the OR Latitude but I have used older OR mitts which were seam sealed and found them effective at keeping water out... but so do rubber kitchen gloves. What they didn't do was breath well enough to keep up with my sweaty hands. I have yet to find a glove / mitten system which I like... but I don't think I am the only one who has had trouble finding the perfect gloves:

http://www.psychovertical.com/?truegloves

> My problem is finding a TRULY WATERPROOF shell. Every one that I have tried, leaks water through the seams.

Ha. I have overmitts which are waterproof in the lab, but I still get wet gloves in the field.
Why? because water creeps in through the big hole - you know, the one your hand goes through. You simply cannot seal an overmitt to a jacket sleeve in a manner which will stop water all the time. Give up.

unless you try the integrated approach like the build in mittens in the sleeves like used by Loki. Downside: you have to buy a complete jacket just to get the mittens :-)

Edited by Woubeir on 09/24/2007 08:58:06 MDT.

> I noted a previous post that recommended
> OR Latitude mitts as being seam sealed.

We carry these at the outfitter I work at and I've noted the durability and craftsmanship of the. I will be purchasing a pair of these for personal use this winter. As mentioned by another member previously in this thread, the glove comes with a liner but it is my opinion that an alternate should be considered instead.

> What about MLD Event shell (now with a
> gore-tex palm for durability)...

I don't have an opinion on the version of the MLD mitt with a Gore-tex palm as the pair I own is constructed of all eVent. They are excellent mitts that shed rain and breathe wonderfully however it is my opinion that there is a durability issue which one might not want to risk in sub zero conditions.