@Joslyn, you're mistaken.
Although you might be able to find a URL you like for $15, you can't set up a site like this without greater investment--even if you used a freeware forum software--because there are other costs and expenses. These include:

--bandwidth (hosting), which will come at a higher price once you get some traffic and/or begin hosting photo images and files;

--a content management system (CMS), which is what you see as "the home page" but is actually a shell and indexing system that surrounds and...may be intercoursed with, the whole site;

--time, to program, to moderate, to anti-hack, to de-spam and to comply with a variety of accounting and verification protocols that begin the moment you decide to accept money for anything (not counting the old school, under the radar, "bros, we need some donations for the server's yearly fee" that small sites can do);

--and then, if due to time or other misfortune, you find your forums to be successful but mired in a CMS and/or BBS software that isn't updated or updateable, you'll have to migrate all the databases and data into new, different, potentially incompatible but much nicer software. This will come at the cost of time, heartache, stress, money ranging from a little to obscenity and will likely require you to redesign the site's CMS.

So, it's not **quite** tossing down fifteen bucks and ~BING!~ out pops a wonderful site that has lots of people coming to it. In fact, for a site that, like this one, is mired in an old CMS and lousy BBS software, it's not like that at all.

But hey: pretty much everyone here is an internet lover. You go girl! Make that new site and include the free classifieds section. You know we'll all check it out, because we will! Maybe that would create some incentive for the millionaires owning this site to put down their cigars (on that gilded ti stand over there at the side of the tee box) and make a better pen for the golden goose? I'll help, too: when you reach 30k monthly uniques, zap me a screenshot of the Analytics and I'll buy a banner ad for $10/month. I put my money where my mouth is. I might even post a classified ad.

Now, @ the millionaires: do what you want with your Classifieds, but please become aware that the longer you wait to push the Agony Button, the worse and more expensive it will be to update and de-lame the site.

Trust me, I know these things.

Edited by EBasil on 12/02/2011 07:24:51 MST.

My big point is if Hammock Forums can do it so can BPL, the $15 comment was for emphasis. In a seriousness if I thought I could start my own site and let everyone know about it without incurring the wrath of BPL for telling people on the only place I know everyone goes, I would. Heck, maybe I'll try it anyway and just hope everyone finds it.

Don't talk about. Do it. We have an on the web forum. Post it there.

I'm not profiting from BPL.com. I'm profiting from exchanging my gear with other members. Using this logic pretty much anyone could charge me for doing anything relating to swapping gear. Maybe my internet company should add a little fee for using it for "profit", and post office giving me an additional tax for mailing out goods....

Restricting access to an internet forum seems pretty 1990's and a seriously poor management decision. These restrictions have nothing to do with actual cost incurred and to me and maybe others, speak to serious and pressing financial needs on the part of BPL.com.

I invest alot of time in BPL.com partly to builds up a history that lets me trade with others, but now because of its changes, even if membership was free, I have less confidence in this platform and its management and I think it might be better to focus on another forum.

Is that BPL can't figure out what perks to offer in exchange for $$, compounded by a lack of transparency in the decision-making process. Other sites manage to offer things that members are willing to pay for: more storage space, more customization options, access to off-topic forums, access to extra features such as larger message limits on PM storage, no ads. Please note the bolded terms, b/c the things that these sites offer to paying members are perks that make being on the site more pleasant, but don't affect the fundamental experience you visit the site to have. Requiring payment for something that's a primary reason people use the site seems to make sense economically, but practically users tend to resent it (see also: the NYT's difficulty in monetizing their online edition). Since gear is, for better or worse, a fundamental part of the experience of being an UL backpacker, the gear swap forum doesn't qualify as an "extra," in my opinion.

I haven't been here since the begining and I don't know what BPL's original business plan was, but I do know I've been and continue to be a paying member at various other sites. I pony up b/c I'm getting something I want and (1) I want to support that so I can keep getting it, and (2) I'm spending enough time on the site that I want the extra features to make the experience more fun. At the time I joined BPL the only extras I noticed were the discounts in the gear shop and article access. Now the gear shop is gone, so that leaves only the articles. If not enough people are willing to pay for those to keep the ship afloat, then BPL needs to come up with new extras. In other words, give more to paying members, not take away established site features from non-paying members. Incentivize. Carrot, not stick.

And while I'm typing, I might as well also point out a problem with word choice. Several very established posters are not subscribers. At other sites, they would simply be "members" instead of "paying members," or "premium members," or "contributors." Here they are "guests." Applying that term to the likes of Bob Gross or Eugene or any of the other familiar, knowledgeable faces here borders on insulting. A guest is someone who visits and leaves. A member is someone who's a part of something bigger. If BPL wants users to invest in the site, they should start by calling people who register to use the forums, "members." Words do matter, especially online where they are the primary means of communicating. People are much more likely to pay for something they feel like they're a part of.

Edited by spelt on 12/03/2011 19:22:23 MST.

"Trust me, I know these things."

Then how do top flite sites like CandlePower Forums, BushcraftUSA, and Hammock Forums do such a great job of providing an excellent community experience? You don't have to pay a dime to participate fully on those sites.

If BPL wanted to do a better job, they could. And I'm not saying they should or they have to. They can do whatever they want just like anyone else. Any of us here are free to not surf BPL and do something better on our own if we can't put up with BPL's site.

But the idea that we're stuck with this poor setup because the hurdles are just too high simply ain't so.

Vendors should pay to advertise in gear swap. Guests and general members who don't own a business should not. How many cottage vendors rely solely on BPL for revenue?

I had a Rab citrus wind jacket that I got for $50 that I was going to pass along at cost since it didn't fit, but I couldn't post since I'm not a member. I had to return it rather than paying it forward. The classified traffic is going to diminish, and the classifieds drives interest and new membership.

There are many sweetheart deals that will no longer be offered due to a short-sighted forum decision.

You want to attract new paying members because they want to join, not because they have to.

I'm not sure why they just put a restriction on new threads - to be honest people can still PM the sellers but members loose out because we have fewer items listed and the same competition for them. That just seems silly to me.
I think the way to do that is to completely blank out the forum to Guests if its a membership premium. Would reduce gearswap traffic though, I suspect members would be able to keep it going though.

What would have been smart is if there was a delay on the forum that allowed members to get first dibs, and then some time later allow everyone else to see it. Anyone could still post an ad though.

Unlikely. you figure there aren't all that many members in the grand scheme of things.

Taking away features is a great way to push folks away. Between Mountain project, Whiteblaze, craigslist, ebay,etc plenty of places to list items for free.

personally, I found this site searching for a daypack at the gear forum came up in a search. I bought that, then a tent and was generously given a pillow since then. I don't really have an interest in the main articles but like the general forum discussions. I won't pay $ to sell gear here.

Making you have a minimum of 25 or whatever posts in non-chaff threads before you can post in the gear sale... that might be more fair.

Edited by JakeDatc on 12/03/2011 22:15:16 MST.

Making you have a minimum of 25 or whatever posts in non-chaff threads before you can post in the gear sale... that might be more fair.

That does sound totally reasonable.

Talk about killing the goose that laid the golden eggs . . .

The gear swap is what has been driving people to this site. It truly has become THE place to buy & sell backpacking gear. Any business person with half a brain would LOVE to have the "problem" of trying to figure out how to convert all these "guests" in to paying members. For god sake though even a child would be smart enough to know better than to make any change that might stifle the inflow of people and/or gear.

Everyone benefits when there are more items being offered for sale INCLUDING the site. If the owners of this site can't figure out how they benefit then they should really look into hiring a person or two with a little business acumen.

I've owned my own business for 18 years. For the life of me I don't think I've ever seen a more potentially damaging business decision than one like this which will inevitably drive away potential business (membership, BPL product sales, etc) and take this site back years in it's growth or development cycle.

Craziness . . .

I'm definitely not thinking this is smart move. Like others have said, the gear swap is what drives BPL, a lot people come here because it is by far the best place to sell/buy UL gear. People come here to sell their stuff, get involved with the community, and end up buying the membership. That's exactly what I did, I wasn't a member for a long time, but constantly checked the site for deals. I found myself reading more and more articles and threads though when I came to search the gear swap, and then truly saw the value of a membership by being able to read the various articles.

I think BPL needs to think this one out a little more...

There's no need to worry non-members, you can simply paypal $10 to me and I'll list an item on your behalf :)

I say to hell with nonmembers. Get a sub or get out and complain somewhere else. There are many sites to sell your gear so go. I never knew nonmembers could sell items previously which seems ridiculous. I think we should remove their ability to reply to posts as well. Also, they should be required to sew an identifier on their packs so I can punch them on the trail.

Edited by Micronorton on 12/03/2011 23:39:25 MST.

There are frequent posts complaining about the functionality of the BPL website.

Am I the only one who likes it?

I like the open space, makes it easy to read. There is not too much information plastered all over the screen, the chronological order of the posts is easy to follow, etc.

I do wish the search function was better. If I'm searching for something in particular, I just come at it through Google.

I have a hunch that it's the more computer savvy people that want to see changes. Am I wrong there?

Would someone be able to post a link to a website with a forum format that they like better? Outside of the backpacking field, of course.

> Vendors should pay to advertise in gear swap. Guests and general members who don't own a business should not.

Actually, commercial vendors are not allowed to use Gear Swap: they must use Gear Deals. Only BPL Members selling unwanted personal bits and pieces are allowed to use Gear Swap. This rule cuts down on spam.

Should you see a posting which seems to violate this rule, please Report it (there's a button).

Cheers

I am with you David. A little tweaking. But we know Ryan will do what Ryan wants, like it or not. So hold on, it gonna be a bumpy ride...

"Would someone be able to post a link to a website with a forum format that they like better? Outside of the backpacking field, of course."

the appearance is fine. the post threading and stuff is ancient.

quote function, clickable links(either automatic or a [url] tag, PM system that isn't stupid (pm should be automatic and be internal to the board.. not just a link to your email...). having the thread titles change is confusing, inside the thread ok but externally on the main list makes it hard it hard to find/follow.

Rockclimbing.com, mountainproject.com beesource.com, bikeforums.net, gunks.com.... take a look

No experience driving sites here, but if all those free websites exist to sell gear, another is irrelevant no? I've bought and resold a ton of gear hear to test items and I'll continue to do so. I've never used schmeg's list of fleabay. Here when I buy from someone it's a better deal and I have paid member recourse if I bought an orange sold as an apple. I bought a lifetime membership as a thanks for the hosting of such a venue that let me try an industry's gear and find my loved setup. I for one don't think it'll hurt the site overall, and now I'm double glad I bought a membership to the site and enjoy giving back for all ive gained, which is considerable. Nothing in life is free, you get what you pay for, and fairness is in the eye of the one who took the leadership role in setting this whole BPL up. (Ryan) So use it as catalyst for change and do what he did, only better and totally free! That's the beauty of it. Holding soggy Wheaties on your spoon seems pointless. And my transaction trust just went way up. I for one say thanks Ryan, and now I have a perfect gift for two people this year.