Forum Index » Make Your Own Gear » Newbie question (possibly dumb!) - No-Sew Cuben and Climasheild Apex Comforter for 2 people.


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Alice Feels Happy
(alice.feels.happy) - F
Newbie question (possibly dumb!) - No-Sew Cuben and Climashield Apex Comforter for 2 people. on 11/28/2011 23:49:06 MST Print View

I'm hoping people might comment on potential flaws in this idea, or suggestions for best approach if it is do-able.

I'd like to make a packable, light, synthetic comforter. Basically one big rectangle slab to be used in a tent to cover two people.

The Climashield comes in 60" roll width so that is ideal for covering two people on standard sleeping mats with some extra at the sides. I would be looking at a 60" x 72" piece of Climashield. (My sleeping partner is 5'8 and I am shorter so that sounds about right to me)

My understanding from (beginner) reading is that I can tape cuben fiber and therefore wouldn't even need to sew it. I understand that Climashield Apex doesn't need to be quilted so I could use it in a big slab? The problem then would be how to have it stay at the edges underneath the Cuben cover(a few corner ties?).

Would it need to be a mix of Cuben and a more breathable fabric to let air in and out for packing, or is that more applicable to down fills rather than synthetic? I definitely want synthetic due to allergies.

In an ideal world, I'd like to have two layers of the Climashield and have an opening in the Cuben cover so that I could twice a year carefully remove/add a layer of Climashield to move between seasons, but still have only one layer of Cuben.

Does this sound ridiculous?

Edited by alice.feels.happy on 11/28/2011 23:49:40 MST.

Chris Muthig
(cmuthig) - M

Locale: Georgia
Re: No-Sew Cuben and Climasheild Apex Comforter for 2 people on 11/29/2011 10:49:37 MST Print View

I have no experience working with cuben, so someone may know better than me, but I think having it be completely no-sew will be a possible problem. Even though synthetic insulation needs less loft normally than down, it still has to have air to loft. If there are no stitches at all, then either there will be air in the quilt (most probable situation) and it won't compress well, or you will suck the air out somehow and it won't loft well.

Enlightened Quilts have to have some way of pumping air into them to allow the down to loft, and you may need something similar. Having stitching helps a bit, according to Enlightened, but may not even be enough if you want it to be a quick process at all.

As for the Apex, I have made quilts by sewing around the edges all the way. In my experience, if you don't sew the Apex around all the corners, it has a tendency to move around a bit on you. It probably won't rip apart, but you will be able to see into the quilt and see it not reach the edges everywhere at times.

Also, I haven't used a two person quilt or seen specs for them, but is 60" wide enough? I like my quilts to be at least 48" wide for me alone. I think that at 60" you and your partner would be stuck right next to each other and not be able to move much.

I wrote a guide for an Apex quilt that may only be helpful for you in small bits if you decide to go the no-sew path.

http://kringlelight.wordpress.com/2011/11/15/sin50/

Hope this all helps.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Newbie question (possibly dumb!) - No-Sew Cuben and Climashield Apex Comforter for 2 people. on 11/29/2011 16:29:07 MST Print View

I don't know about Cuben either, but some people use it for quilts.

However, body perpiration evaporates and will condense on the inside of the Cuben. You have to wear vapor barrier close to your skin.

Maybe you're better off using breathable fabric and sewing it. A lot of fabrics is 60 inches wide also.

When I haven't sewn all the perimiter, the insulation inside moves inward making an area with no insulation at the edge.

You could just put in a hand stitch every few inches around the perimiter, that would probably work and not take too long.

drowning in spam
(leaftye) - F

Locale: SoCal
Re: Newbie question (possibly dumb!) - No-Sew Cuben and Climashield Apex Comforter for 2 people. on 11/29/2011 18:43:33 MST Print View

If you build the cuben cover like an envelope, you'll be able to switch out the insulation. Overlap the flap sufficiently so that the insulation doesn't fall out inadvertently. The flap will also allow the insulation to loft easily. I'd put the flap on the outside so that your sweat doesn't evaporate into it. I don't know how you'll hold down the edges. Perhaps glue some patches to the insulation and cover with velcro tabs or strips?

Alice Feels Happy
(alice.feels.happy) - F
Thanks for the replies :-) on 11/30/2011 21:02:38 MST Print View

Yes 60" won't be wide enough. Thanks for catching that. I had been thinking just of the sleeping mat widths plus extra at the sides but forgot that people are not flat like sleeping mats!

I love the last poster's idea of an envelope shape for the outer. What do other people think of this?

Thanks for the replies :-)

drowning in spam
(leaftye) - F

Locale: SoCal
Re: Thanks for the replies :-) on 11/30/2011 22:28:56 MST Print View

Let me clarify on the envelope. It's been a while since I've used a real one. I would pin/tape/glue down the edges of the envelope flap. Kind of like a sandwich bag (without the zip) when you flip the flap over to close the bag. This closes the envelope as you pull the edges like you would when it's wrapped around you. It'd be a slight hassle to when replacing the insulation, but I doubt that'd be a big deal at all.

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
VBL? on 11/30/2011 23:45:53 MST Print View

"However, body perpiration evaporates and will condense on the inside of the Cuben. You have to wear vapor barrier close to your skin. "

Wouldn't cuben be this vapor barrier?

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: VBL? on 12/01/2011 08:15:00 MST Print View

"However, body perpiration evaporates and will condense on the inside of the Cuben. You have to wear vapor barrier close to your skin. "

Wouldn't cuben be this vapor barrier?


Yes, but everything inside the vapor barrier will get damp

If you want to wear any insulation inside, this wouldn't be so good

Like, if you put the comforter over a sleeping bag or if you wear a jacket inside

If you're going to sleep naked or just a base layer under the comforter then you'de be okay

drowning in spam
(leaftye) - F

Locale: SoCal
Re: Re: VBL? on 12/01/2011 15:42:48 MST Print View

That's why I had my cuben quilt built with more insulation than I thought I would need. I also got a vapor barrier suit in case I decide to push the limits, but I haven't had a need for it yet. With the quilt being built here, extra insulation can be added as needed, so there shouldn't be a need to put it over a comforter. I suppose they might be surprised by a very cold night and need to wear their clothing inside. If they practice really good moisture management, Perhaps using their trash bag pack liners as vapor barrier shirts, their clothing might still have some loft in the morning.

Alice Feels Happy
(alice.feels.happy) - F
envelope design on 12/02/2011 04:38:59 MST Print View

This is what I imagined when you said envelope except with a much bigger overlap (i.e., the bottom layer would extend down more so it might not even require the dome closures), and the APEX just placed directly inside the outer. Am I imagining wrong?Envelope design?

Envelope design 2?

Obviously a lot of air would get in with this design but I'm not sure if this is a problem or not. I'm still trying to understand whether breathable (momentum) or non-breathable (cuben) outer would be preferable.

For extra info: This is intended to be for 3 season use with one of Henry's tarptents and an exped UL Synmat.

Ty Ty
(TylerD)

Locale: SE US
61" width on 12/02/2011 08:54:34 MST Print View

Here is what a 61" wide quilt looks like with two people in it...

http://www.jacksrbetter.com/Large%20Family.htm

Why not just make it out of cuben, put the flap for changing out the material on the outside?

One question, how comfortable is cuben going to be next to your skin in 3 season use? I thought vapor barrier quilts were for very cold temps? I think I would get sweaty/sticky pretty fast if it wasn't super cold. I guess without cuben you can't go no sew though.

Alice Feels Happy
(alice.feels.happy) - F
Climashield ordered on 12/05/2011 22:59:55 MST Print View

I ordered the Climashield today so I am one step further with this.

I think I'll try making a cover out of a cheap fabric first and then remaking it in a more expensive fabric. Am leaning towards SevenD for the fabric now after quite a bit more research.

I sleep really cold (at home I have 3 layers of duvet) so I have ordered 4oz Climashield and enough for two layers if needbe. If I'm going somewhere really hot I don't anticipate needing a quilt, so hopefully this will give me the 4oz option for when it's not super cold and the double layer option for if I go anywhere cold.

I ordered from http://owfinc.com/ and didn't see 4oz as an option in their catalog but when I emailed they asked if I wanted 4oz or 6oz.

I am also thinking that I will try just making a 1 person quilt first but design it so I could make a second one and clip them together so they can be used either separate or together.

Thanks for the pic of the 61in quilt.

Edited by alice.feels.happy on 12/05/2011 23:00:33 MST.