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Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: Re: Re: ankle taping on 12/05/2011 07:38:17 MST Print View

yuppers on the shaving- luckily my wife was there to intervene before I started taping! :)

the circulation was one of the reasons I was reluctant at some of the suggested taping methods- they were encasing the entire foot in tape, the linked one above doesn't make a full circle anywhere- I might add a "stirrup" or two as suggested by Tom though

I will only have it on running (or should say attempting to run)

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
NM snow on 12/05/2011 07:43:14 MST Print View

Eugene- nice pics, looks like New Mexico is looking a little like Montana :)

Mike

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
NM snow on 12/05/2011 08:51:37 MST Print View

Nice pics Eugene.

On ankle taping...If you've got to tape it to run, I think it's a sign you shouldn't be running.

Good luck to all of you with the ankle issues, hope they work themselves out and don't take too long.

. ..
(dgowler)
Training on 12/05/2011 09:00:16 MST Print View

Right on fellas! Totally encouraging to see everyone hard at er. I'm jealous of everyone with mountains in their backyard. I'm dug so far into the prairies I could watch my dog run away for 3 days. I've been hitting the river valleys to get some elevation in.

I've paired some neoprene wading socks with my minimus' and had toasty warm feet down to the mid teens, the vibram has even stayed soft enough to maintain some traction. Havn't felt any need to put the screws to them yet. Runs have been in the 3-4 mile range, pretty flat though. The toughest part has been trying to think in miles and Fahrenheit!

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Re: Re: Re: ankle taping on 12/05/2011 09:09:35 MST Print View

...

Edited by asandh on 02/13/2012 20:32:25 MST.

ben wood
(benwood)

Locale: flatlands of MO
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ankle taping on 12/05/2011 11:37:49 MST Print View

art,
i am now 33. i haven't been very active since high school and lots of skating in college until backpacking. I started running off and on at about 30. i've lost close to 30 lbs since then. anyhow it seems my body is a little slower at healing and the best thing i can do is take it easy and slow, which is sometimes hard to do. every time i've been close to an injury rest is the best thing. in my case i'm planning on holding off till after christmas, may not be necessary for some, but i'm also hoping to do a quick backpacking trip near christmas.

anyhow, just thought i'd share my thoughts as a "not necessarily in my prime but probably should be" especially considering endurance events.

all i can say is that i hope too see you and all the others at the grand canyon in april, i'll probably be the slow tattooed guy coming in really really late!

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ankle taping on 12/05/2011 11:53:06 MST Print View

"I tend to run through injuries as long as they are minor. usually back off the normal workout to an easy "rejuvenation" level, meaning shorter and less intense.
For me, this active rest seems more beneficial than full scale immobile rest.
of course this is for minor issues."

This is where working in the gym shines. You can work certain muscles without stressing something that is injured. One thing is to listen to your body. Running through minor injuries is common, but if things don't get better soon, time to re-evaluate. One common running problem is shin splints that turn into stress fractures.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
injuries on 12/05/2011 12:57:11 MST Print View

I think there is a lot more folks going into the camp of light use for minor (emphasis on minor) injuries vs total rest. It makes some sense as the light use should be promoting blood flow into the effected area. I had a calf injury earlier in the year that I initially used RICE, but started walking with the next day and within in a couple days slowly jogging, ditto on a groin pull a couple of months later.

You certainly need to be listening to your body and every injury is different (as is the way individuals respond to them), but I think there is some validity in light use with minor injuries.

Nick I agree, if running is out of the question- then there are likely other options available at the gym so you can still be reaping some exercise benefits even if injured. I was encouraged that the stairmaster machine had no ill effect on my ankle :)

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
"2012 R2R2R Group - Training Log's" on 12/05/2011 13:03:35 MST Print View

Lick those wounds folks. I'm hoping you all recover nicely in the next couple weeks.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: injuries on 12/05/2011 13:25:37 MST Print View

Mike,

When my son was a junior in high school he ended up with stress fractures in both shins before the cross country season even started. He was unable to run at all (Doctor's orders). So he worked out in the gym for almost 3 months. His first race was the league cross country semi-finals. He did somewhat poorly in that race probably because he had not raced in several months. The next week he won the league championship and broke the course record (these were 5K races). Then in the spring the first 3 races of the track season he posted the fastest high school times in the nation in the 800, 1600 and 3200 meters. So in a sense the gym work out was probably more beneficial than actually running. Of course not getting to run drove him batty, but his coach put together an excellent gym program for him. He went from a pretty good runner to an elite high school runner because of the alternate training program. One side note was that his groin muscles developed some problems. Bigger muscles and not as much range of motion as was needed. So mid-way through the track season a serious groin pull knocked him out of competition for most of the rest of the track season. He did make it to state finals in the 1600, but did so-so. The next year (senior year) he finally put it all together and came in 2nd at the state finals for both cross country and track. I guess the moral of the story is that for every action there is a reaction. The difficulty is figuring it all out. But 100% rest is not necessarily needed or even the best path. Also very competitive running is hard on the body, because you are pushing your limits to win. But taking the racing intensity down a notch is beneficial as we get older.

So we just need to know/learn when to back off to some degree. That is why for older runners I like to see a lot of base work, the intervals and other higher intensity workouts need to be carefully done. As we get older, it takes longer for the body to heal.

I sure am enjoying following everyone's progress. Makes me want to do join the trip, but I have a problem with races; I have to win or I am unhappy :) and I can't compete with you young bucks. You all may not think it is not a race, but everyone is running and someone will finish first :)

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Re: injuries on 12/05/2011 13:34:21 MST Print View

Nick I understand your competiveness.
You can always just shoot for a PR.

Edited by asandh on 01/30/2012 19:13:58 MST.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
joint & tendon rejuvenation supplements on 12/05/2011 13:38:30 MST Print View

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Edited by asandh on 02/13/2012 20:33:24 MST.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Re: injuries on 12/05/2011 13:50:30 MST Print View

Art,

When you are in your 60's PRs are hard to come by unless you are running a new race :)

To be honest, my goal everyday is to (1) wake up above ground, (2) have a great relationship with my wife, and (3) enjoy my hobbies to a somewhat high level of competency.

I don't worry about #1. #2 and #3 are high priorities.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ankle taping on 12/05/2011 17:33:13 MST Print View

"I tend to run through injuries as long as they are minor. usually back off the normal workout to an easy "rejuvenation" level, meaning shorter and less intense."

+1 Let pain be your guide. And keep it slow and short until you are back to normal.

"Re. ankle taping, I'd say it depends on if you are taping your ankle simply as a preventative, or you need it to get through your workout. you just need to listen to your body and not be stubborn."

Again, +1. I used to use it to be able to keep running, as long as the sprain was minor, and preventatively for races like The Dipsea or running really rough trails when training for same. If the sprain is serious, the pain should be enough to keep you from running on it, tape or no tape. If in doubt, don't run. Also, this might be a good time to get up close and personal with your local friendly Step Mill. The one thing you absolutely must avoid is going over on that ankle again. If you go over on it far enough, you risk knocking a bone chip off the inside head of the tibia, and that will put you down for a good long time, with possible surgery to remove it. Benn there, done that. Don't go there, Mike. Error on the side of caution. No single race/run, R2R2R included, is worth messing yourself up for the long run. If you've got good insurance, and the sprain is too sore to run on, this might not be a bad time to consult a good sports medicine physician or podiatrist, whichever has the better reputation in your locale.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Re: Re: injuries on 12/05/2011 17:37:52 MST Print View

"When you are in your 60's PRs are hard to come by unless you are running a new race :)"

Tell that to Clyde Davies. ;-)

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
injury on 12/06/2011 14:40:33 MST Print View

so far so good :) I taped up my ankle (per the Mulligan method) and took a 5 mile trail run today. Was being extra mindful of foot placement and not going all out; had a couple of occasions that reminded me that I did in fact have a minor injury to my ankle, but nothing too bad at all.

I'll continue to tape my ankle and take it a little easy, but knock on wood- I think it's going work out :)

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: injuries on 12/06/2011 14:50:23 MST Print View

Who is Clyde Davies? A quick Google search did not turn up anything running-wise.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: injuries on 12/06/2011 17:44:49 MST Print View

"Who is Clyde Davies? A quick Google search did not turn up anything running-wise."

My spelling mistake. It should be Clive Davies.

http://www.johnhancock.com/bostonmarathon/mediaguide/alltimetop10seniors.html

He ran 2:36 something, but I haven't found a link to it yet. It's out there somewhere. However, it was recently eclipsed by a Japanese fellow who ran something like 2:36:40. Can't recall his name offhand.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Clive Davies on 12/06/2011 18:07:03 MST Print View

Okay, I'm friggin impressed!

When I was young I was a competitive runner. No way I can get any where close to those times. I have always continued to run a little, I just enjoy it. It was more fun when I had more hair to feel the wind blowing through my hair though :)

A few times I have started to train to run some master races, but then I start training too seriously as I am looking at age group times and then it becomes difficult to find all the time needed to be truly competitive. So I just do my own thing and never enter a race. That is how my brain is wired. Same in business, I always need to be the top producer. When my kids were little their mother wouldn't let me play Chutes and Ladders with them because I always won. The good news is that when my son finally beat me at Chess, he knew he truly won.

Good thing we don't have backpacking races, I wouldn't enjoy it any more.

But I am enjoying the kids planning and training for next year.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Clive Davies on 12/06/2011 20:14:08 MST Print View

" It was more fun when I had more hair to feel the wind blowing through my hair though :)"

I'm bald as a billiard ball, and I always rationalized it by telling myself it gave me an extra edge running into the wind. ;=)

"A few times I have started to train to run some master races, but then I start training too seriously as I am looking at age group times and then it becomes difficult to find all the time needed to be truly competitive. So I just do my own thing and never enter a race. That is how my brain is wired."

You're probably better off that way, Nick. Running competitively is always a delicate balancing act between being honed and being injured, and when you get into your 60's you're courting injuries or just plain wear and tear that could prematurely end your hiking career as well. That's the gist of a conversation I had with a great rehab specialist coming off IT band therapy when I was, guess what, 61. He told me, "I can probably get you back on the road but, given your years of hard running, it would probably shorten your time in the mountains considerably. Your choice." After some thought, I reluctantly gave up running. I figured I'd already gotten my money's worth there. I have never regretted that decision, although occasionally a really good runner comes floating by, seemingly effortlessly, and something atavistic stirs deep within and I get a lump in my throat. "Once a runner" is about the best I can describe the feeling.