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2012 R2R2R Group - Training Log's
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Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Setup on 03/04/2012 10:10:35 MST Print View

Getting my setup dialed in too.

Looks like I'll be carrying:

(In addition to worn clothing- running shorts, injinji socks, synthetic T, hat, sunglasses, watch, MT110)

-Gregory Reactor Pack
-3 24 oz. bottles (two with handheld straps)
-Pat. Houdini
-Pat. Cap 1 long sleeve
-Can't decide if I want to carry windpants or not (Montbell Dynamo, 4 ounces)
-Space blanket (3oz.)
-first aid/emergency kit (2 ounces, including firestarting)
-a few chlorine dioxide tablets or a small premixed dropper bottle just in case
-Headlamp (zipka)

-Food: I've settled on carrying Balance bars (6-8), Pertpetuem (4-6 bottles worth), maybe 6-8 gels, and maybe 6 ounces of chips (3x2 ounce packets).

Edited by xnomanx on 03/04/2012 10:11:56 MST.

Adan Lopez
(Lopez) - F

Locale: San Gabriel Valley
Zoning in/out on 03/04/2012 11:42:25 MST Print View

Amazing story. Glad your friend is okay. After that adventure with Craig a few weeks ago ive thought about how easy it is to miss turns when running or when its dark. I'll also be carrying real basic stuff needed to stay out there if necessary but to avoid this im thinking a good study of the trail maps/photos is a good idea. I hear its hard to get lost there but in the dark or on the run changes this a bit. Id be interested in any tips from yall on this point. Mostly because i would like to avoid wasting a bunch of time figuring out which trail to turn on, etc.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
calf strain :( on 03/04/2012 12:28:39 MST Print View

my week started out pretty good, skipped my Thurs run as the wind was especially brutal- set out on my Sat run which was going to be my longest run of 14 miles- almost immediately my right calf started out feeling tight, tried stretching it a couple of times, along w/ walking up the steeper stuff- I thought for sure it would work it's way out- it didn't :( after 10 miles (my stamina felt great and sure I would have made the 14 miles) I bagged it.

it's definitely strained, hard to put weight on it- have been icing it, wrapping it and gently walking stairs- hoping by mid week I can run again, time will tell

Art- glad your friend made it out, that must have been a little scary


Dan Hewins
(hewinsd) - F

Locale: Chihuahuan Desert
getting lost and calf strain on 03/04/2012 17:50:33 MST Print View

That's quite a story glad to hear that it turned out alright. On a few of our runs Eugene and I have talked about possible pace groups and trying to stay together to some degree. I for one am not above falling back a bit to stick with a group rather than take off up ahead. Hopefully it'll shake out that we'll be able to stick together in a few groups during the day.

Mike, that's a real bummer - rest, ice, compression (I swear by this), elevation may help. I have acquired various compression sleeves and such over my running years, but an ace bandage overnight does the same and has helped me with calf/thigh strains in the past. Good luck!

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: getting lost and calf strain on 03/04/2012 18:37:00 MST Print View

Dan- thanks for the tips, I'll try them all :)

definitely a bummer, we're looking at 50's & even a day at 60 this week!


Dan Hewins
(hewinsd) - F

Locale: Chihuahuan Desert
compression on 03/05/2012 12:08:45 MST Print View

Mike - sounds good. I typically would wrap the offending area with only gentile pressure overnight. There's nothing like waking up in the middle of the night and having your lower leg feeling of pins and needles. This is not what you want. I have had good results in a few nights of this along with stretching in the morning usually after a warm shower.

You may also like the idea of wearing compression calf-sleeves/socks while running/recovering they tend to fend off muscle fatigue on long days - I tend to wear them after long runs for a while because they just feel supportive and good. They've taken the place of most of my ace bandages. Speaking of which, I may stow a pair of calf sleeves in my pack for the hikes during the R2R2R.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: compression on 03/05/2012 13:08:56 MST Print View

Dan- wrapped it last night (from ankle up- as suggested on the web) not very tight and have to admit it feels better today :) Not good enough to go run, but definitely better. I'll continue to ice it today, along w/ compressing it occasionally and hit a few advil as well.

My hope is I can do some kind of decent walk tomorrow (or Wed depending on how it feels) and then maybe (fingers crossed) a run on Thurs- we're having unseasonably warm weather and would love to take advantage of it

I'll look into the compression sleeves, might be just what the doctor ordered.

In other news, received my handhelds today- yeah not impressed w/ the bottles- almost looks like a baby bottle nipple on them????? I'm pretty sure my Osprey bottles will fit.


Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Re: compression on 03/05/2012 13:20:30 MST Print View

do you make sure and have some good warmup time before you really start pushing?
I seem to take a good half hour to warm up these days, before I'm able to give it a hard push.

Dan Hewins
(hewinsd) - F

Locale: Chihuahuan Desert
Re: Re: compression on 03/05/2012 13:51:23 MST Print View

If you do opt for sleeves I recommend Zensah brand - I find them comfortable and they seem to keep their stretch for several years.I wash mine after ever 5 or so (when they seem a little stretched out) uses and they go right back to feeling like new. I feel obligated to mention I have no affiliation with Zensah.

I also agree in taking things easy as you heal up - a small injury can be the difference between even a Rim-to-wherever let alone the double crossing. I am no M.D., but I know first hand can take several weeks to heal this type of injury You may try getting on a (stationary) bike or swimming/pool running in the mean time. A few hours on a bike is a whole lot better than a few added weeks of recovery.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: Re: Re: compression on 03/05/2012 17:43:41 MST Print View

Art- I probably need to warm up more than I do, though I should state that I really don't push it- kind of slow, but steady

Dan- I'll check that brand out- thanks

I lifted today, but nothing w/ my legs- feel better walking around than I did yesterday; I'll probably try a walk tomorrow if the calf feels up to it, bike is a good idea too- definitely don't want to exasperate it in any way


Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
"2012 R2R2R Group - Training Log's" on 03/05/2012 21:26:59 MST Print View

@ Art,

I'm also glad to hear your compadre made it out of a pretty hairy situation. I don't make a very good effort to inform at least one person (my wife!) of my plans when going out for a run, even the short nearby runs, this is something that I need to change.


Hang in there brother!


My water toting setup will echo yours, but I will likely pack a fourth empty bottle for flexibility or for that "Oh sh#t!" moment that may come when I could use the extra water in-between watering stretches.

x4- 24oz. bottles (x1- 24oz. bottle HEED, x3- 24oz. water)

I don't have one yet, but a 1-2L MSR dromedary style container w/ wide mouthed screw top might replace two of my bottles, that way I can just refill my two handhelds as needed from that larger vessel and cut down on duplicate items (bottles). This would slip in the bladder holder on the inside of my pack (Ultimate Direction Wasp).

As far as the rest of the gear related stuff, haven't really put much thought into it, kind of figure I'll adjust as the weather window gets nearer and we know what conditions will be on the day.

More or less:

using my old UD Wasp pack.
t shirt
arm sleeves
wind shell
light gloves
beanie+billed cap
calf length socks
small camera
very small FAK (foot care, basics)

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: "2012 R2R2R Group - Training Log's" on 03/06/2012 07:15:56 MST Print View

wingsuit- noice!

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Setup on 03/06/2012 08:43:37 MST Print View

my tentative gear list, to be filled in more completely as the RRR approaches.

Base Running Clothes
running hat & sunglasses
longsleeve lightweight poly shirt (I always wear longsleeve for sun protection)
Patagonia Cap2 pants (shortened slightly, these serve as my running tights)
lightweight shorts, over Cap2 pants
injinji toe socks
favorite running shoes to be determined
2 handhelds, 21 oz each

Extra Clothing (mostly in pack)
183g - North Face Triumph rain/wind shell - definitely no matter what
159g - lightweight rain/wind pants - maybe, weather dependent
274g - Patagonia Nano Puff - definitely no matter what
159g - Marmot Midweight longsleeve under shirt - maybe, weather dependent
32g - lightweight polypro balaclava - definitely no matter what
30g - lightweight gloves - definitely no matter what
(max clothing in pack = 1.84 lb , min clothing in pack = 1.14 lb)

Pack (its between these two, depending on what all I bring)
241g - Nathan HPL 20 (modified) - 5L capacity
300g - Black Diamond Bbee (modified) - 12L capacity

74g - Petzl Tika Plus headlamp
120g - misl, minor first aid, etc.
30g - third water bottle, 24 oz empty in pack

to be determined

Edited by asandh on 03/06/2012 09:16:18 MST.

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
Nathan #20 on 03/06/2012 11:43:53 MST Print View


What do you think of the Nathan #20? What modifications did you make to it and how did it improve functionality? Will it fit all your consumables, and your small gear list? I like everything about that pack except the lack of a stretch pocket outside.

I have the UD Wasp pack, which is a great pack but a little "heavy" (17oz.) relative to the Nathan packs which seem to be about 1/2 the weight of comparable Ultimate Direction packs. I haven't taken a knife to it yet but I think I can shave a few ounces of unecessary straps and bring it down closer to 10-12oz and maintain complete functionality. Less is more.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Nathan #20 on 03/06/2012 12:22:10 MST Print View

Eugene : no major modifications, mostly just removing stuff. I don't use bladders so cut out all the bladder related stuff. then cut out some of the inner double layer because it didn't seem that I needed an insulation layer for the whole pack (be careful not to weaken the pack). and shortened straps a bit.
Reduced the weight from (without bladder) 279g to 241g, about 1.5 oz reduction, after all this is BPL.

I like the HPL 20, but ...
1. it covers a lot of surface area of the body so can be a bit warm. I only use mine on cool/cold runs and night time sections of 100's.
2. it does not hold very much even with bladder removed. just about big enough for a 100m with aid stations. its probably borderline big enough for the RRR depending on what I end up bringing. it will hold my gear list, but not much room left for a third water bottle.

I don't like outside stretch pockets, so lack of one is not an issue for me. they are convenient, but elastic is heavy, and I would always worry about something falling out. I tend to cut them off.

the ideal RRR pack based on what I like in a pack would probably be the ...
Ultraspire Omega
won't get one before RRR but may buy one for some summer adventures.
if its good enough for Krissy it must be great.

Edited by asandh on 03/06/2012 15:40:50 MST.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Nathan #20 on 03/06/2012 19:40:44 MST Print View

I'll sound off on the Nathan 20 too.
I think it carries great but the capacity is limited for adventure running. If I expect it to carry two 24 oz. bottles, there's barely enough room left in the back for my windshell and a little food. No room left for microspikes or other stuff, so they end up jingling on the outside. I've found that the chest pockets aren't too useful to me; I don't care for the feeling of having them stuffed with food.

My Gregory Reactor is now my favorite; I could probably put a small overnight kit in it and be OK, yet it's still small enough to run well- pretty light too. Given I now run with bottles, it's far more useful than the Nathan because of the side bottle pockets. Big mesh on the outside, two zippered pockets, plenty of internal organization, hip pockets for bars/gels. It's nice having more capacity- no worries about careful packing and stuffing.



Locale: Greater Gila
re: R2R2R gear on 03/07/2012 05:59:18 MST Print View

For people who want a handheld bottle setup, ultralight, and without a pocket, look no further than an old bicycle tube. You can cut 2 holes into the perfect length of tube, stretch one hole over the bottom, one over the top, and you've got a functional, and hyperlight handheld system. NO annoying strap to flop around and adjust, and again...functional! I've stopped using bottle pockets, instead putting a stash of salt caps in my pocket, and using gel flasks in MYOG gel pockets at the waist of my shorts.

I'm hoping to write a more detailed training log of R2R2R prep in the coming days...

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Coyote bait. on 03/08/2012 22:28:23 MST Print View

My dog.

Second time in the last three night runs together that we've been chased by coyotes on the trail.

Two of my standard nighttime trail runs pass through the same wash/drainage system. One is a 5.25 out and back, the other is a longer loop of 10 miles.

I run with my dog on a six foot leash, looped through a belt so I'm hands-free.

First time I heard a rustle in the bushes and shrugged it off. Moments later I sense something behind us and a coyote was only 10 feet away and closing on her. She was oblivious. I charged it, yelled, and it lurched off. That's when another came from the other side of us, staying about 20 feet away. I threw a rock at it, scared it off, started running again. Within 25 yards they were trailing us again. More rock throwing, more yelling. This happened three times before they left us alone.

Similar thing tonight, only I had a headlamp so I could see all the eyes reflecting in the bushes. One came out of the bushes on our right. I threw a rock, scared it off. A second was ahead of us. I threw a rock at that one when I realized there was a third behind us. We were literally being encircled.

Friggin' ridiculous, right out of a zombie movie or something. I'm standing in the dark, holding my dog, throwing rocks and yelling at the eyes circling in the dark.

I got off the trail and onto roads as soon as I could.

To top it off, at about mile 11 and only 1/2 mile from home two pit bulls are unleashed and trotting down the street a block ahead. I added at least a mile to get home in order to avoid them and go around the block they were on.

My nerves are shot. Not sure pup is doing anymore nighttime trail running with me. They're on to us.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: Coyote bait. on 03/09/2012 07:23:27 MST Print View

wow- bold son of a guns! .22 revolver loaded w/ bird shot would solve any coyote or pit bull problems :)

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Coyote bait. on 03/09/2012 09:06:31 MST Print View

pretty bold varmits Craig.

I used to run with pepper spray, maybe time to start carrying again.
Do any of you animal experts know if pepper spray would work on mountain lions ?